International Current Affairs (#BidenIn)

[wendybr]

Men in ads are either being replaced by women (want to sell a Jeep- use a woman) or depicted as buffoons, imbeciles or weaklings..

[Cynth]

15 minutes ago, Bones said:

Finding a cure for cancer is not necessarily related to the treatment provided to the people by the government if any. Having the world's best/longest lifespan doesn't automatically make you a shoe in to cure cancer.

Funding may be slashed but is there a nation that spends more on this type of research than the US? Even with the cuts. 

If another nation were responsible for finding a cure I'd almost bet my bottom dollar it was on the back of some research conducted in the US or at least by professionals who received training in the US.

I'm happy with where my faith lies

“Curing cancer” is not a singular concept. Cancer survival rates have been improving for most cancers, particularly over the last decade, globally. So does that mean that Obama can claim he cured cancer? It’s a silly notion.

Australia has the highest cancer rates in the world but we also have pretty much the highest survival rates as well. Are we curing cancer? Hmmm....luckily the research agencies plug away despite the politics, but my guess is that the outcome for cancer will be a global, non-linear effort of increasing survival rates. No-one will “cure” cancer, no one person, no one country. We will just get better at beating it. 

[Cynth]

11 minutes ago, Bones said:

I just googled and it told me Monaco has the highest life expectancy in the world. That's good for the people of Monaco but it doesn't necessarily mean they'll cure cancer it's unrelated.

I think my life expectancy argument was about your claim that their health system is so amazing not whether they will cure cancer. 

[Edinburgh]

48 minutes ago, wendybr said:

OK...so let's debate?

I'll channel our former adversaries ( minus the swearing). 

I want to know where replacing male fantasy heroes, like James Bond and Thor (mind you I've never watched either of these films) with strong, presumably invincible women, leads us?

Are men still allowed to play these roles...or are they being made irrelevant in the world of Hollywood...and elsewhere in the media?

It's OK to offer new role models to girls and women...but at the expense of offering depictions of strong, heroic men??

Doesn't seem balanced to me.

Did you read the article?

My initial reaction was a calm really? What's next? Then I read the article.  The gender change actually happened in the comics and the movie is just following that.

I do think it's ridiculous for Thor to be depicted as a woman.  But, I'm thinking from a Norse mythology perspective rather than a comic book/movie perspective.

Overall ... meh.

[marron]

1 hour ago, Bones said:

Sorry, I stand corrected. Cuba is the richest nation in the world with the most talented and highly trained medical professionals.

Cuba is well know for it's medical professionals. It has a huge number of doctors compared to most other countries, has the biggest medical school in the world, and from memory some of their programs  contributed significantly to cancer research.

That's not to say i disagree that cancer cures are more likely to come out of places where there are large investments.

[wendybr]

14 minutes ago, Edinburgh said:

Did you read the article?

Overall ... meh.

Nope...didn't read the article. Lol.

"Meh" as in "Meh I don't care about the issue either way"  or "Meh..I'm unimpressed to see the change"?

If that makes sense?

[marron]

1 hour ago, wendybr said:

OK...so let's debate?

I'll channel our former adversaries ( minus the swearing). 

I want to know where replacing male fantasy heroes, like James Bond and Thor (mind you I've never watched either of these films) with strong, presumably invincible women, leads us?

Are men still allowed to play these roles...or are they being made irrelevant in the world of Hollywood...and elsewhere in the media?

It's OK to offer new role models to girls and women...but at the expense of offering depictions of strong, heroic men??

Doesn't seem balanced to me.

Balanced?
You're kidding right wendy?

THere are still a huge proportion of strong heroic men to strong heroic women in popular culture.

It took 22 (I think) films for Marvel to make a woman the main vehicle of the movie.

Where does it lead us?

Towards a world where you are just as likely to see  a strong female lead as a male one? Good god! The horror!

 

As for it being Thor, Ed's on the money. Well, even then - she's not going to be Thor the Norse God, she's going to be a person who gets Thors powers somehow. It's a pretty well worn trope now in comics from what I understand so not weird at all, especially given that with the movies they've reached a point where they are going to start having a "new generation" of superheroes to do films about.

On top of all of that - it's marketing as well. People like to see it, they wouldn't be doing it otherwise. don't let the incels fury dictate perceptions about whether or not people want it. they do.

 

[Edinburgh]

3 minutes ago, wendybr said:

Nope...didn't read the article. Lol.

"Meh" as in "Meh I don't care about the issue either way"  or "Meh..I'm unimpressed to see the change"?

If that makes sense?

I don't care enough to get peeved

[Cynth]

2 minutes ago, Bones said:

In a sense we are, and we are a clever people so we could crack the code definitively. 

I will bow down in homage to anyone who can cure stage 4 cancer. The others are more or less manageable in many types of cancer. But stage 4 is still a death sentence except in miraculous cases. 

Hopefully what we are getting good at is screening and detecting cancer before it reaches a terminal stage. 

14 minutes ago, Bones said:

I never said their health system was amazing. It's only good if you're rich.

And here we agree. 

[wendybr]

9 minutes ago, marron said:

Balanced?
You're kidding right wendy?

THere are still a huge proportion of strong heroic men to strong heroic women in popular culture.

It took 22 (I think) films for Marvel to make a woman the main vehicle of the movie.

Where does it lead us?

Towards a world where you are just as likely to see  a strong female lead as a male one? Good god! The horror!

 

As for it being Thor, Ed's on the money. Well, even then - she's not going to be Thor the Norse God, she's going to be a person who gets Thors powers somehow. It's a pretty well worn trope now in comics from what I understand so not weird at all, especially given that with the movies they've reached a point where they are going to start having a "new generation" of superheroes to do films about.

On top of all of that - it's marketing as well. People like to see it, they wouldn't be doing it otherwise. don't let the incels fury dictate perceptions about whether or not people want it. they do.

 

Meh...

[marron]

Meh... but you brought it up?

[wendybr]

12 minutes ago, marron said:

Where does it lead us?

Towards a world where you are just as likely to see  a strong female lead as a male one? Good god! The horror!

OK.. a more considered response from me.

Are these heroes in Marvel films,  heroes in any other sense that that they can outmuscle bad guys?

I guess I am entirely turned off by the use of spectacular violence in mind numbing "block busters". Full stop.

To have men in those roles is bad enough.

To now have women in those roles is even more abhorrent to me.

The idea of young humans of either gender setting these mindless figures up as heroic, to me, is stupid. 

[wendybr]

7 minutes ago, marron said:

Meh... but you brought it up?

That wasn't 'meh' to the issue...but to your sentiments. 

[marron]

10 minutes ago, wendybr said:

OK.. a more considered response from me.

Are these heroes in Marvel films,  heroes in any other sense that that they can outmuscle bad guys?

I guess I am entirely turned off by the use of spectacular violence in mind numbing "block busters". Full stop.

To have men in those roles is bad enough.

To now have women in those roles is even more abhorrent to me.

The idea of young humans of either gender setting these mindless figures up as heroic, to me, is stupid. 

But you haven't watched them.... ?

 

I mean, they are far from my favourite thing, but as far as action films go there's plenty of food for thought and moral dimensions. For example one of the major plot points is about the morality involved in allowing some people to die in order to save others. Who do you choose, etc. Should you choose. Then there is the question of using violence, the question of acting outside the law when the law is ineffective at stopping suffering... and then the overarching theme of people being identified as being different and how they are treated by mainstream society.

Like I said I'm far from a fan but there's a hell of a lot more to them than simply being about beat up the bad guys to solve the problem.

So when there is that nuance there, but a continued message that the women can't be as nuanced or aren't capable of being at a level where these issues can be raised - whatever the issue is - I think it's good that there's a turnaround. Even if it's only driven by the dollars.

 

 

(i figured that was what the "meh" was for, but even so - you want to debate it!)

[Cynth]

15 minutes ago, wendybr said:

OK.. a more considered response from me.

Are these heroes in Marvel films,  heroes in any other sense that that they can outmuscle bad guys?

I guess I am entirely turned off by the use of spectacular violence in mind numbing "block busters". Full stop.

To have men in those roles is bad enough.

To now have women in those roles is even more abhorrent to me.

The idea of young humans of either gender setting these mindless figures up as heroic, to me, is stupid. 

Now I don’t know much about these movies, I don’t watch them. But I know my children’s generation are obsessed by them, despite the violence. I’m thinking that maybe they also tend to represent altruism and helping others as well? The good v evil theme is age old and although not realistic may express a positive message. And if we add to that a powerful female then maybe the bias that is usually in these movies is reduced a bit? 

The truth is though that I remember a speaker once talking about the percentage of female heroes in movies and it was agonisingly low. 

[Cynth]

Lol Marron beat me to the same argument by two minutes! 

[Edinburgh]

8 minutes ago, marron said:

But you haven't watched them.... ?

 

I mean, they are far from my favourite thing, but as far as action films go there's plenty of food for thought and moral dimensions. For example one of the major plot points is about the morality involved in allowing some people to die in order to save others. Who do you choose, etc. Should you choose. Then there is the question of using violence, the question of acting outside the law when the law is ineffective at stopping suffering... and then the overarching theme of people being identified as being different and how they are treated by mainstream society.

Like I said I'm far from a fan but there's a hell of a lot more to them than simply being about beat up the bad guys to solve the problem.

So when there is that nuance there, but a continued message that the women can't be as nuanced or aren't capable of being at a level where these issues can be raised - whatever the issue is - I think it's good that there's a turnaround. Even if it's only driven by the dollars.

 

 

(i figured that was what the "meh" was for, but even so - you want to debate it!)

I'm glad to hear all of that. Surprises me actually,  but good to know.

[wendybr]

Fair call from Marron...I totally don't watch 'action" films, so I am acting on stereotypical views no doubt.

And it certainly is good that that they encompass moral issues. I also take on board Cynth's observations.

But I'd  be surprised (and delighted)  to hear that the resolution to the conflict between good and evil in these films arises by means other than a violent struggle? Which presumably Ms Thor and Ms J Bond is going to win?

[marron]

Heh, of course. And that's fair criticism probably.

But it will usually come at a cost, I think. Or might not even be succesful. I'd say most of the time it's a resort, because the villain is violent. Of course then you've got the Hulk, which is arguably an examination of anger and violence and the dangers of not being able to control it.

[wendybr]

I guess this issue was on my mind as I watched commercial television last night...to be visually assaulted during ad breaks  by promos for what might be a delightful film...except that again...the cute little AI girl ends up  "blossoming" into a ferocious and clearly devastating and invincible killer (  no doubt only  of scores of bad guys - maybe AI bad guys). Forget the name...Alinta maybe??

Could be  my utter contempt for just about anything Hollywood produces...but adding females to the collection of good guy slaughterers of the bad guys is uninspiring.

[wendybr]

1 hour ago, marron said:

Of course then you've got the Hulk, which is arguably an examination of anger and violence and the dangers of not being able to control it.

 Unsurprisingly, I wouldn't  know! 

[pseudonym]

 

[wendybr]

To Pseud's Wonderwoman clip...

Lol - what a crock! 

[wendybr]

Actually - as I spent an hour or so out using the high pressure hose on the pavers in our back garden, continuing to mull over this issue, a thought crystalized.

It's all a con.

 It's "Hey girls.... you can be a super hero too - just as long as you do it with a massive semi - automatic weapon/ machete/ laser gun/ deadly MMA type skills...or thunderbolts!

You know - as long as you can do it just like a big tough He-man super hero would do it! "

Pffft!

[marron]

So what, they should do it by talking it over, because that's what girls do?

[wendybr]

31 minutes ago, marron said:

So what, they should do it by talking it over, because that's what girls do?

Ahhh…. how did I know that would come back at me? 

IDK...but I don't necessarily think it's a great leap forward in the history of gender equity, to have women playing weapon-totting roles as super heroes in crap blockbuster movies.

Nor do I think portraying men increasingly as idiots, or as irrelevant, is a positive step forward either.  

But then, to look to Hollywood, or what generally passes for entertainment these days. for any signs of human advancement, is absurd. Lol.

[Edinburgh]

56 minutes ago, wendybr said:

Actually - as I spent an hour or so out using the high pressure hose on the pavers in our back garden, continuing to mull over this issue, a thought crystalized.

It's all a con.

 It's "Hey girls.... you can be a super hero too - just as long as you do it with a massive semi - automatic weapon/ machete/ laser gun/ deadly MMA type skills...or thunderbolts!

You know - as long as you can do it just like a big tough He-man super hero would do it! "

Pffft!

But, but, water restrictions!!!!

[wendybr]

Ha....I resentfully waited til after 4pm.

Are you saying you can't use high pressure hoses atm??

They hardly use any water at all.

[Davo]

If the films come from some source material and changing the gender of a character conflicts with that then it seems like tokanism.

As the comics discussed Thor as a woman decades ago then all good. The talk of a female James Bond sounds weird at first but the rumors are that the Bond character doesn’t change, just that a female agent gets the 007 codename. In the books Bond loses the codename to another agent so all good.

Had they said we’re going to ignore the pile of books and over 20 films to make a Jane Bond instead I’d be against it. Why not write a new character in that case?

[Edinburgh]

17 minutes ago, wendybr said:

Ha....I resentfully waited til after 4pm.

Are you saying you can't use high pressure hoses atm??

They hardly use any water at all.

No hosing of hard surfaces?