Australian National & Youth Teams Discussion V2

[btron3000]

Hmmm I'm not so confident about this team. I like their attitude, I like that Ange never played the "they are not good enough" Pim Verbeek card, and wants to be pro-active in games. However, I think they have the feel of a team that would do well against the lower-regular teams at the World Cup or Confed Cup, but one of the stronger ones would show up our defensive frailties and occasionally being too ponderous on the ball in midfield, and give us a nice touch up.

 

Plenty of teams at international level think they have the team to give tournaments a shake, then they get there and meet one of the superpowers and they realise how far off the mark they truly are. That 06 team could match it with anyone in terms of general play, but they still were just a little touch of class short against the likes of Brasil and Italy. To me, this team doesn't seem as battle-hardened as that team.

[Paul01]

Joeys squad announced

4 wanderers to go to india

Good news for those boys😊😊😊ðŸ‘ðŸ‘ðŸ‘

Suman, Viggani, Najjarine; Aquilina

tournament starts on the 16 September against Kygryzstan

Edited September 8, 2016 by Paul01

[Carns]

Plenty of teams at international level think they have the team to give tournaments a shake, then they get there and meet one of the superpowers and they realise how far off the mark they truly are. That 06 team could match it with anyone in terms of general play, but they still were just a little touch of class short against the likes of Brasil and Italy. To me, this team doesn't seem as battle-hardened as that team.

Agree with everything you said. I'd only add that we have 2 years for these boys to get some more experience. Plenty of them are starting to play in very good leagues and will only get better (and more battle hardened) providing they stay injury free. Mind you, we'd still be scrambling against the best of the best.

[ManfredSchaefer]

Hmmm I'm not so confident about this team. I like their attitude, I like that Ange never played the "they are not good enough" Pim Verbeek card, and wants to be pro-active in games. However, I think they have the feel of a team that would do well against the lower-regular teams at the World Cup or Confed Cup, but one of the stronger ones would show up our defensive frailties and occasionally being too ponderous on the ball in midfield, and give us a nice touch up.

 

Plenty of teams at international level think they have the team to give tournaments a shake, then they get there and meet one of the superpowers and they realise how far off the mark they truly are. That 06 team could match it with anyone in terms of general play, but they still were just a little touch of class short against the likes of Brasil and Italy. To me, this team doesn't seem as battle-hardened as that team.

 

Understand your thinking and agree on the disparity between this current squad versus the 06 guys (who in their own context were not able to adequately deal with the next echelon of national sides like Brasil & Italy). However let's contextualise the current squad in the broader history of the game. Most of the players are in lower tier European clubs/leagues or back here in Oz, unlike that period 1996-2008 when the so-called Golden Generation were plying their trade in quality clubs in the EPL, Bundesliga, Serie A, La Liga, and getting plenty of game time. There was also the background of the old NSL clubs providing a competitive and demanding technical and physical environment for players when they were younger. Okay, tactically they may not have been as well structured, but the individual brilliance of the likes of Ned Zelic, Harry Kewell, Mark Bosnich, Mark Schwarzer, Mark Viduka compensated for that in spades.

 

What we have now is a mob of cattle that are still young, yet to form their definitive capabilities and achievements, and perhaps more reliant on what the manager can do for them structurally and psychologically than telling them how to play. It's an old adage but the champion team will always beat a team of champions, and Ange is building our lads up nicely to be the former, not the latter. He also has the comfort of being able to use the last two major tournaments (WC2014 and AFC Cup2015) to build up belief, winnow out the chaff, establish his modus operandi, and has a domestic league to fall back on for talent that is in a better place than it has been for ages (i.e. look at how Mooy has come through this process). 

 

For me these guys look eerily similar to our 1970 WC squad. There's a kernel of talent there that can possibly flourish into the next major blooming of Socceroo greatness. It's not certain that'll happen, and the challenges ahead in terms of our opponents, or in solving certain probs (e.g. who will replace Timmy C) are pretty imposing. For what it's worth the FFA have done the right thing in giving the driver's seat on this journey to Ange. he may not always steer us right, but he knows how the machine works, he knows how to get the best out of it, and he isn't going to suffer unwanted passengers.

[btron3000]

Good points both. Manfred re: the quality of the team. The only thing I'd say is that there are a few playing in Asian leagues which have yet to prove they can produce hardened players. Our two starting CBs and our DM when Jedinak is out are all playing in Asia. Combine that with the inexperience of the fullbacks, and we look a little susceptible. As Carns said, the young blokes have two years to gain experience. Let's hope they grow.

[Carns]

Good points both. Manfred re: the quality of the team. The only thing I'd say is that there are a few playing in Asian leagues which have yet to prove they can produce hardened players. Our two starting CBs and our DM when Jedinak is out are all playing in Asia. Combine that with the inexperience of the fullbacks, and we look a little susceptible. As Carns said, the young blokes have two years to gain experience. Let's hope they grow.

I'm worried about some of the Asian based players too. From all reports (didn't see the game the other night), both Spira and Sainsbury were good? Admittedly, they weren't playing Germany, but hopefully class is permanent? Plus, the CSL does have some very good strikers for them to stop.

 

We'd all prefer them to be playing somewhere in Europe, but it seems unlikely.

[ManfredSchaefer]

 

Good points both. Manfred re: the quality of the team. The only thing I'd say is that there are a few playing in Asian leagues which have yet to prove they can produce hardened players. Our two starting CBs and our DM when Jedinak is out are all playing in Asia. Combine that with the inexperience of the fullbacks, and we look a little susceptible. As Carns said, the young blokes have two years to gain experience. Let's hope they grow.

I'm worried about some of the Asian based players too. From all reports (didn't see the game the other night), both Spira and Sainsbury were good? Admittedly, they weren't playing Germany, but hopefully class is permanent? Plus, the CSL does have some very good strikers for them to stop.

 

We'd all prefer them to be playing somewhere in Europe, but it seems unlikely.

 

 

Spira and Sainsbury were rocks. Did a lot of good work in defence and distributed well. Course they were well shielded/assisted by Milligan, who in my opinion is consistently better than Jedinak when it comes to national team duties. 

 

Perhaps we need to lose some of our suspicions about Asian football and look more closely at how much game time our best 20-30 players get against quality opposition. Look at Kruse; the poor bugger has had almost zero game time at Bayer Leverkusen thanks to injury and possibly a more competitive team mate for the same pozzie. It's great that he is in the Bundesliga, but how does that work for him more favourably than say Rogic at Celtic, or Tomi J at FC Luzern. Or Hangzhou based Spira who will be playing against some seriously well credentialled European and South American talent?

 

Serious game time in a challenging competition is going to be more important than just being on the books of an EPL/BL/La Liga/Serie A club...just ask Brett Holman or Jason Davidson what it can do to your career when that scenario impacts on them.

[Carns]

 

 

Good points both. Manfred re: the quality of the team. The only thing I'd say is that there are a few playing in Asian leagues which have yet to prove they can produce hardened players. Our two starting CBs and our DM when Jedinak is out are all playing in Asia. Combine that with the inexperience of the fullbacks, and we look a little susceptible. As Carns said, the young blokes have two years to gain experience. Let's hope they grow.

I'm worried about some of the Asian based players too. From all reports (didn't see the game the other night), both Spira and Sainsbury were good? Admittedly, they weren't playing Germany, but hopefully class is permanent? Plus, the CSL does have some very good strikers for them to stop.

 

We'd all prefer them to be playing somewhere in Europe, but it seems unlikely.

 

 

Spira and Sainsbury were rocks. Did a lot of good work in defence and distributed well. Course they were well shielded/assisted by Milligan, who in my opinion is consistently better than Jedinak when it comes to national team duties. 

 

Perhaps we need to lose some of our suspicions about Asian football and look more closely at how much game time our best 20-30 players get against quality opposition. Look at Kruse; the poor bugger has had almost zero game time at Bayer Leverkusen thanks to injury and possibly a more competitive team mate for the same pozzie. It's great that he is in the Bundesliga, but how does that work for him more favourably than say Rogic at Celtic, or Tomi J at FC Luzern. Or Hangzhou based Spira who will be playing against some seriously well credentialled European and South American talent?

 

Serious game time in a challenging competition is going to be more important than just being on the books of an EPL/BL/La Liga/Serie A club...just ask Brett Holman or Jason Davidson what it can do to your career when that scenario impacts on them.

Agree entirely. That's why I am pleased we have a bunch of players who will be playing regularly in The Championship. One of the toughest comps you can play, and longest. When I say "play in Europe", I mean exactly that, playing regularly. Very disappointing to see what happened to Kruse. Hope he can get back some of his spark.

 

Also agree that the quality of the Asian leagues is often better than we give it credit for. Can be very dependent on the team you go to.

 

Also agree that Milligan is more effective than Jedinak.

[ManfredSchaefer]

Great minds Carns...

 

[btron3000]

Agree re: game time in any league v sitting on the bench. Just look at our goalkeeping coach and his World Cup!

 

However, the proof is in the pudding regarding Asian leagues. Players coming out of the Asian leagues have had little real impact on World Cups etc. Of course you had South Korea at 2002, but that was like a perfect storm - decent players, Hiddink, at home, some...ahem...lucky calls. Not sure how many European based players they had.

 

We can handle a player or two in the Asian leagues, but they have yet to show that they toughen players up for big games where they need to show quality, concentrate, use the tricks of the trade etc. Take Cahill the other night, total streetsmarts to get that goal. As Bozza said, you learn that stuff in leagues like the Championship, Premier League etc. Asian leagues are getting better but they are obviously not there yet.

 

I also prefer Milligan, but I also think he is prone to a little concentration error here and there. And the other night there were a couple of moments defensively where if we were playing better opposition we would have conceded.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like this team, they are easily the most watchable and likeable since 06. I was just comparing them to the larger nations. Even that we are able to do that is telling. If anyone had tried to do that for Verbeek's team, or Osiek's (6-0, 6-0 anyone?) we'd have laughed.

[ManfredSchaefer]

Agree re: game time in any league v sitting on the bench. Just look at our goalkeeping coach and his World Cup!

 

However, the proof is in the pudding regarding Asian leagues. Players coming out of the Asian leagues have had little real impact on World Cups etc. Of course you had South Korea at 2002, but that was like a perfect storm - decent players, Hiddink, at home, some...ahem...lucky calls. Not sure how many European based players they had.

 

We can handle a player or two in the Asian leagues, but they have yet to show that they toughen players up for big games where they need to show quality, concentrate, use the tricks of the trade etc. Take Cahill the other night, total streetsmarts to get that goal. As Bozza said, you learn that stuff in leagues like the Championship, Premier League etc. Asian leagues are getting better but they are obviously not there yet.

 

I also prefer Milligan, but I also think he is prone to a little concentration error here and there. And the other night there were a couple of moments defensively where if we were playing better opposition we would have conceded.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like this team, they are easily the most watchable and likeable since 06. I was just comparing them to the larger nations. Even that we are able to do that is telling. If anyone had tried to do that for Verbeek's team, or Osiek's (6-0, 6-0 anyone?) we'd have laughed.

 

In fairness to Osiek, remember that 1-2 win away against Germany in a friendly back in 2011? Okay, it wasn't a serious cup tie. However that Mannschaft squad was serious quality:

 

 

 

Tim Wiese, Marcel Schmelzer, Arne Friedrich, Mats Hummels, Bastian Schweinsteiger (Toni Kroos 64), Andre Schurrle, Lukas Podolski, Thomas Muller (Mario Gotze 64), Christian Trasch, Sven Bender, Mario Gomez (Miroslav Klose 73) 

 

As for qualities such as watchable/likeable...they are far more subjective than winning world cup qualifiers or other quantitative measures. I do believe that Pim's Socceroos were an ugly team to watch for most of the time, but they did qualify for South Africa no problems. In a situation where we had only just come out of the wilderness of 32 years of not qualifying for the finals 4 years earlier, it could be argued that was more important to reinforce our estimation of the Socceroos and the accompanying financial dividends than winning friends with tikki-takka.

 

The problem with the Holger era in my opinion is it really was like the bottom of the J curve. At its best (e.g. that game against Germany, or our 2011 AFC Cup campaign) we looked very decent and we were winning. That 6-0 drubbing of the Uzbeks in Qatar was beautiful, and we should've won against Japan. Plus Holger did give a lot of respect and support to the local clubs in the A-League (unlike Pim). His problem was (in my opinion) the cattle he had were buggered by the time it came around to serious qualification games in 2013...look at the likes of Brett Holman, Carl Valeri, Lucas Neill. They'd done their dash by those horrible friendlies against France and Brasil.

 

And for what it's worth, Holger was right about those games informing where we were at the time...and we were shite. His job had been done; he got us to Brasil 2014 and given the squad he and the FFA agreed to every chance to perform in that process. Thankfully when it went boom Ange was there to scrub out the damage of those bad losses and put in some stop gap solutions that gave us some semi-decent games against Chile and the Netherlands.

 

I think what is really the best aspect of Ange's tenure is he has done what Fozzie was bitching about after that 4-0 loss to Germany in 2010. Remember how he went off his rocker about how that team didn't play like Australians should? Ange has definitely got that ideal in his and our players minds...and that gives one confidence when we do have to suit up against the big traditional powers in years to come.

[btron3000]

Yeah I like that we are playing in an "Australian" way, not afraid.

 

Forgot about the 2011 Asian Cup. Good tournament. The semi was amazing. Agree about the players at the end of Holger's reign but a good coach is able to transition the older, better players out as they are losing their legs. Look at Ange - Neil gone, Schwarzer saw the writing and left, now what he is doing with Cahill. Lots to like about this team.

[ManfredSchaefer]

Yeah I like that we are playing in an "Australian" way, not afraid.

 

Forgot about the 2011 Asian Cup. Good tournament. The semi was amazing. Agree about the players at the end of Holger's reign but a good coach is able to transition the older, better players out as they are losing their legs. Look at Ange - Neil gone, Schwarzer saw the writing and left, now what he is doing with Cahill. Lots to like about this team.

 

I wonder how much of Holger's brief from the FFA was do what you have to do to get us to Brasil & to help Franz Beckenbauer lobby for 2022 votes...forget the rest.

 

That EAF Cup squad Holger took over to Hong Kong in 2012 has some familiar names from the Ange era

 

 

Qantas Socceroos Provisional Squad for EAFF East Asian Cup Qualifiers

Terry ANTONIS, Sydney FC Eli BABALJ, FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd Aziz BEHICH, Melbourne Heart FC Robert CORNTHWAITE, Chunnam Dragons Dino DJULBIC, Guizhou Renhe Ivan FRANJIC, Brisbane Roar Brett EMERTON, Sydney FC Eugene GALEKOVIC (gk), Adelaide United Richard GARCIA, Melbourne Heart Rostyn GRIFFITHS, Guangzhou R&F, China PR Ben HALLORAN, Brisbane Roar Scott JAMIESON, Perth Glory Osama MALIK, Adelaide United Michael MARRONE, Melbourne Heart Matt McKAY, Busan I Park Mark MILLIGAN, Melbourne Victory Aaron MOOY, Western Sydney Wanderers Tom ROGIC, Central Coast Mariners Mat RYAN (gk), Central Coast Mariners Matt SMITH, Brisbane Roar Adam TAGGART, Newcastle Jets Archie THOMPSON, Melbourne Victory Michael THWAITE, Perth Glory Dario VIDOSIC, Adelaide United Luke WILKSHIRE, FK Dinamo Moscow

[GunnerWanderer]

Some great discussion here today lads looking forward as the campaign continues hearing more thoughts agree with a lot of what has been posted

 

Milligan Over jedinak Long term

06 teams were far more credentialed

And yes it's better to be playing that just sitting at a top team in Europe

 

I still believe long term this team is built on how good Ryan sains and Spira can become

 

If that 3 can become super strong and we can go to next World Cup and hold teams to one goal with vision boy in the team for last 20 mins of a game who would bet against him

 

In all honestly our talent isn't high but I'm with Ange he's just such a determined prick he will get the maximum out of us

[ManfredSchaefer]

"Vision Boy"

 

Love it lol

[luisenrique]

 

 

 Of course you had South Korea at 2002, but that was like a perfect storm - decent players, Hiddink, at home, some...ahem...lucky calls.

 

 

 

Understatement!

 

Re: World Cups, if we got the same kind of group again then I wouldn't expect us to get out this time either. However with a more 'normal' group I'd be pretty confident, and then who knows. Not expecting us to win the World Cup anytime soon, but in 2006 we were so close to a quarter final against Ukraine/Switzerland. With the right draw this team could go further than any before.

[Paul01]

U19 AFF Championship 2016

Wanderers selected

Keanu Baccus, Tariq Maia, Liam Youlley,

Lachlan Scott, Jackson Bandiera, Mario Shabow

 

Included in Starting Line Up vs Cambodia

Jackson Bandiera, Liam Youlley and Mario Shabow.

coach and Gombau picked smurf Blackwood ahead of Scott. Blackwood did his usual and missed 4 sitters but scored a penalty and a goal.

Not sure if any of our guys were used as subs as team sheet hasn't been not been published.

[FCWanderers]

http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/article/ange-postecoglous-incredible-european-adventure/10lpmh7aym5y312nstj53d849c

 

Ange attends the post EURO, UEFA Coaching Conference for national teams coaches, analyzing the tournament.

[Paul01]

U19 AFF Championship 2016

Wanderers selected

Keanu Baccus, Tariq Maia, Liam Youlley,

Lachlan Scott, Jackson Bandiera, Mario Shabow

 

Included in Starting Line Up vs Cambodia

Jackson Bandiera, Liam Youlley and Mario Shabow.

coach and Gombau picked smurf Blackwood ahead of Scott. Blackwood did his usual and missed 4 sitters but scored a penalty and a goal.

Not sure if any of our guys were used as subs as team sheet hasn't been not been published.

update on subs

Josh Hope (M.Vic) for Youlley and Dejan Pandurevic (Manly NPL) for Prasad.

plus Bandiera got a yellow!

Edited September 14, 2016 by Paul01

[Paul01]

Anyone know the starting lineup for the Young Socceroos.

2-0 up before half time.

Maybe our Lachlan Scott is scoring for fun

[Prydzopolis]

Anyone know the starting lineup for the Young Socceroos.

2-0 up before half time.

Maybe our Lachlan Scott is scoring for fun

Is this the one Optus?

[Paul01]

 

Anyone know the starting lineup for the Young Socceroos.

2-0 up before half time.

Maybe our Lachlan Scott is scoring for fun

Is this the one Optus?

Pretty sure it is

[West13]

 

 

Anyone know the starting lineup for the Young Socceroos.

2-0 up before half time.

Maybe our Lachlan Scott is scoring for fun

Is this the one Optus?

Pretty sure it is

Its half time. Will update you after the ad.

[Paul01]

 

 

 

Anyone know the starting lineup for the Young Socceroos.

2-0 up before half time.

Maybe our Lachlan Scott is scoring for fun

Is this the one Optus?

Pretty sure it is

Its half time. Will update you after the ad.

Hope Blackwood isn't in the starting XI

[West13]

No idea who scored yet. But Shabow just got subbed and gave his captain's arm band to baccus.

 

I love that you can hear Vietnam's famous motorbikes in the background. Super authentic coverage.

Edited September 14, 2016 by West13

[Paul01]

No idea who scored yet. But Shabow just got subbed and gave his captain's arm band to baccus.

Last game Bandiera started at LB

Youlley also started but had an awful haircut imo

[West13]

3 nil. Lachlan scott just scored.

 

Youlley came on for maia earlier.

[Paul01]

Here's the match summary from last game

http://www.aseanfootball.org/results/2016_AFF_U19_CHAMPIONSHIP-005.pdf

They took the goal off Blackwood and gave it as an own goal. Glad Arnie keeps him in the smurf squad

3 nil. Lachlan scott just scored.

Youlley came on for maia earlier.

So Shabow/ Baccus, Maia/Youlley, Scott. The only wanderer not accounted for is Bandiera.

 

I wonder if Gombau was overseeing again?

[Paul01]

Just looked at the first 2 goals. Pandurevic (Manly NPL) 2 goals, second with assist by our boy Scott.

Looks like Bandiera was benched for Smurf Timotheou.

[Paul01]

Young Socceroos currently topping the group

 

Tomorrow 2 National teams playing

Futsalroos vs Brazil in the morning.

Joeys vs Kygrzstan in the afternoon/evening

 

Good luck to all