2 Years Tops: The NSW/Victoria "National" 2nd & 3rd Division Thread

[mack]

Congratulations to the 8 inaugural clubs for the NSD! Set to launch in 2025.

• Apia Leichardt
• Avondale FC
• Marconi
• Preston Lions
• South Melby
• Sydney Olympic
• Sydney United
• Wollongong Wolves
• 2 to 4 additional teams may be added by the time it kicks off.

Also reports that the FA are going to use their cheaper "Champions League" Group Stage model for a 'third division'.

[Sithslayer1991]

No surprises here that its conentrated in VIC and NSW. Though a big concern only 8 clubs from had the ability to meet minimum requirements, and no SA club surely Adelaide City have the resources to come in. Although I know the situation around FQ is what is stopping any clubs from Queensland so there is that. And no Tassie club which begs the question do they even have the resources to come in at all?

So many questions still to be answered but at least they are trying. My optimism isn't great that they can sustain it if they can't get other states in the league.

[pseudonym]

The National Second Division:

"I second that!"

[SBW]

 

[Sithslayer1991]

25 minutes ago, SBW said:

 

SO Football Queenslands are Dics and if it wasn't for their stupid rules we would be in.

[102megan]

1 hour ago, mack said:

Congratulations to the 8 inaugural clubs for the NSD! Set to launch in 2025.

• Apia Leichardt
• Avondale FC
• Marconi
• Preston Lions
• South Melby
• Sydney Olympic
• Sydney United
• Wollongong Wolves
• 2 to 4 additional teams may be added by the time it kicks off.

[SBW]

Pave Jusup on the NSD and why Melbourne Knights didn't submit their application to be part of the NST

 

[pseudonym]

So if a club was rejected from the ALeague in the early 2000's and rejected from the NSD now, does that make those fans "football bitter bitters"?

[mack]

 

2 hours ago, SBW said:

Pave Jusup on the NSD and why Melbourne Knights didn't submit their application to be part of the NST

 

It's always about who gets the cash and who controls the power. FA isn't going to hand that over to clubs who were already proven failures at running a national comp 20 years ago.

[theguyyouwishyouwere]

17 hours ago, SBW said:

Pave Jusup on the NSD and why Melbourne Knights didn't submit their application to be part of the NST

 

Pave forgets to mention the FA have limited it to one Nazi club per division

[Sithslayer1991]

Article summarises what has happened so far, what needs to happen and the final link between NSD and the 3rd tier and state leagues.

 

https://www.espn.com.au/football/story/_/id/38995415/australias-football-pyramid-one-step-closer-reality-now-what

[mack]

Sunshine Coast have withdrawn from consideration to play in the NSD.

[Sithslayer1991]

That leaves Gold Coast, South Hobart and another Brisbane team (I think Strikers) as the only teams left outside of NSW and Vic. Well they tried but it doesn't look like this thing is going to get off the ground and if it does it won't last long if they can't make it sustainable for founding members.

We should be getting news by the end of this month of the final 2 teams and when it the first season starts IF it starts.

[SBW]

Looks like the new National Soccer League for the angry Greeks of South Melbourne will not be taking off next year.

[SBW]

 

[mack]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/failure-to-launch-football-australia-s-mooted-national-second-division-in-doubt-20240716-p5ju20.html

Football Australia’s national second division is set to be scrapped – at least in its proposed format – due to a shortage of suitable teams and the looming prospect of a more hands-on role with the cash-strapped A-Leagues.

The ambitious second-tier competition was set to launch in 2025, featuring 10 to 14 clubs playing a home-and-away season run through the winter months, and with no immediate link to the A-League Men.

But only eight ‘foundation’ clubs were unveiled when FA announced the second division in November last year, and according to sources familiar with planning for the competition, who were not authorised to speak publicly, a recent process has failed to find the additional two to four clubs FA believes it needs to get that structure off the ground.

Another factor is the ongoing uncertainty surrounding the future of the A-Leagues, and the increasing possibility of FA having to, at some point, divert or share resources with the embattled Australian Professional Leagues to keep the domestic scene alive in Australia – resources that might otherwise be eaten up by supporting a second, entirely separate national men’s club competition.

FA remains committed to running some form of second tier in 2025, and has long floated a ‘Champions League-style’ model as an alternative, in which clubs would remain in their respective state NPLs and play additional matches between those fixtures, akin to cup competitions. However, clubs are not supportive of such an idea and want to play in their own league.

FA’s board will consider the matter at a meeting on Thursday, with clubs bracing for news that their desired format will not receive the green light.

FA was approached for comment.

The second division concept has wide support within the sport, both as a way to unite the ‘old soccer’ and ‘new football’ tribes and provide greater opportunities for players, coaches and clubs, although financial viability – particularly at a time when the A-Leagues are struggling so much – has always been a bone of contention.

The federation has gone as far as trademarking a name – the ‘Australian Championship’ – and associated imagery for the second tier, which was revealed to clubs at a meeting last week. It was at the same meeting that FA provided them with an update which, according to one club source, left them “deflated but not defeated” about their hopes of a home-and-away format happening in 2025.

A possible compromise solution, which has not been floated widely but is believed to have some support within FA, is to add existing A-League teams to the ‘Champions League-style’ second division, which would essentially be a more exclusive version of the existing Australia Cup. Those who support this idea believe it would give FA something tangible to sell to sponsors and broadcasters in the short term which could be built upon in future years and eventually expanded to the singular league that clubs desire.

APIA Leichhardt, Avondale FC, Marconi, Preston Lions, South Melbourne, Sydney Olympic, Sydney United 58 and Wollongong Wolves are the eight ‘foundation’ clubs who cleared the high financial bar set by FA to be involved with the new competition.

However, all of those clubs come from NSW and Victoria; attempts to find clubs from other parts of Australia during a second application phase run by FA this year have turned up only one other possible entrant, also from Victoria, while FA has concerns over the viability of one or two of the foundation clubs, sources say.

The second application phase was due for completion last month, but that deadline has passed without any updates from the governing body.

The APL is not involved with planning or preparations for the second division, although their previous leadership last year floated a rough model for promotion and relegation with them as a talking point.

[Sithslayer1991]

I will put my hand up I was always optimistic for NSD I really wanted it to happen and the messaging from old NSL clubs was that they had the means to absorb cost and generate more revenue.

However from what we have seen only a handful of clubs actually have the resources to make the jump up and only if a very niche model is accepted. But the biggest flaw in the plan is no one wants to invest in this. No one wants to bleed money on a very risky venture, so I fail to see how its FFA and APL fault because NSD will always be separate and require alternative sponsors and investors to get off the ground and sustain itself. There is barely enough support A-league let alone a 2nd tier division.

FFA had always put it on the clubs to generate this revenue and the message I am getting is not many clubs have the resources to proceed. It really sucks, the sport needs money but where do we find the financial support?

 

[SBW]

We need to or probably should have followed the Japanese model.

So right now the J-League (they are entirely separate from the JFA) run the 3 J-League divisions and have a total of 60 professional clubs in their ranks.

So what happens if a semi-pro club gets promoted to the J-League, they will need to pay for a professional license to compete in the J-League.

I think the FFA and APL should have come together and have the APL run the NSD but they're trying to model off the football divsions in the UK where the FA run the Championship and below.

[pseudonym]

 

[braad]

8 hours ago, pseudonym said:

 

Seems like a knob, for multiple reasons but mainly because he's complaining the FA shouldn't be capitalising on the Matilda's popularity and growth. 

 

Some of the other reasons are 

- "laid out on a silver platter", yet there's literally only 8 teams that meet the criteria 

- calling for resignations because he's unhappy. Obviously carries much entitlement 

[SBW]

10 hours ago, braad said:

Seems like a knob, for multiple reasons but mainly because he's complaining the FA shouldn't be capitalising on the Matilda's popularity and growth. 

He doesn't get it which shows how narrow minded these angry and bitter Greeks of South Melbourne are.

This is the same reason why the old NSL clubs weren't included in the A-League from the beginning, they don't have cash to compete.

[braad]

3 minutes ago, SBW said:

He doesn't get it which shows how narrow minded these angry and bitter Greeks of South Melbourne are.

This is the same reason why the old NSL clubs weren't included in the A-League from the beginning, they don't have cash to compete.

Yeah, I can't handle the mental gymnastics used to think that more little girls joining local soccer clubs is a bad thing, and shouldn't be prioritised. Especially when traditional revenue streams are drying up.

South Melbourne are surely benefiting from that increase in registrations, unless they're too thick.

[StringerBellend]

10 minutes ago, braad said:

Yeah, I can't handle the mental gymnastics used to think that more little girls joining local soccer clubs is a bad thing, and shouldn't be prioritised. Especially when traditional revenue streams are drying up.

South Melbourne are surely benefiting from that increase in registrations, unless they're too thick.

To be fair south Melbourne have a women's team.

I love South Melbourne Mike he's the one thing from twitter that I miss, the crazy loon.

I'd love to see one of the old NSL clubs in the A League but let's face it few of any could actually pull it off and most don't want to anyway.

The NSD disaster zone shows that.

I really don't get the NSD at all, and happy for someone to explain its benefits. But travel costs etc has always smashed the old NSL and nothing seems to have changed their, makes far more sense to play current system of intra state with a national finals at the end.

If any of those NSD clubs are ready for A League let them in now, it's not if Canberra are going to be ready

[StringerBellend]

That Blacktown City who are one of the most successful and together clubs aren't down for the NSD says a lot. I remember back in the old NSL days, playing state league was more financially viable for them. 

[braad]

2 hours ago, StringerBellend said:

To be fair south Melbourne have a women's team.

I love South Melbourne Mike he's the one thing from twitter that I miss, the crazy loon.

I'd love to see one of the old NSL clubs in the A League but let's face it few of any could actually pull it off and most don't want to anyway.

The NSD disaster zone shows that.

I really don't get the NSD at all, and happy for someone to explain its benefits. But travel costs etc has always smashed the old NSL and nothing seems to have changed their, makes far more sense to play current system of intra state with a national finals at the end.

If any of those NSD clubs are ready for A League let them in now, it's not if Canberra are going to be ready

 

Yeah I'd love some NSL teams in the A-League. Problem is they need to be financially stable to be able to travel the country. How do you do that across the world's biggest (I think?) island? 

 

I look at how the NHL does hockey across North America, and they often have travelling teams do mini tours of each coast to minimise the back and forth travel. Problem is we don't have a 32 team competition spread across different regions. 

[Sithslayer1991]

Melbourne Knights pulling out early in the process when they realised how much they needed to fork out was a big one. Adelaide City saying it just wasn't possible for them and a lack of any Western Australian clubs became real eye openers. 

Which sucks because I was full optimistic for it, but reality is really coming through we really don't have the financial support and infrastructure to make this a reality. I still think South Melbourne and Preston probably do have the resources to make the jump but still require a bit of restructure to fork out the kind of money A-league does, but I am starting to doubt anyone else can.

[SBW]

2 minutes ago, Sithslayer1991 said:

Melbourne Knights pulling out early in the process when they realised how much they needed to fork out was a big one. Adelaide City saying it just wasn't possible for them and a lack of any Western Australian clubs became real eye openers. 

Which sucks because I was full optimistic for it, but reality is really coming through we really don't have the financial support and infrastructure to make this a reality. I still think South Melbourne and Preston probably do have the resources to make the jump but still require a bit of restructure to fork out the kind of money A-league does, but I am starting to doubt anyone else can.

There are only 4 clubs who I think are capable, SMFC, Preston Macedonia, Sydney Utd and Marconi

[mack]

Was always going to be the NPL clubs wanting the FFA to subsidize and pay most of the cost and FFA saying no, our role is basic administration, setup and trying to get sponsor.

This is why FFA have always pushed the "champions league" model. Because half the teams would only play three away games and some would only need to travel outside their home state once or twice.

[StringerBellend]

26 minutes ago, SBW said:

There are only 4 clubs who I think are capable, SMFC, Preston Macedonia, Sydney Utd and Marconi

Marconi aren't, it's not the 80s

[JustWandering]

On 16/07/2024 at 2:31 PM, mack said:

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/failure-to-launch-football-australia-s-mooted-national-second-division-in-doubt-20240716-p5ju20.html

A possible compromise solution, which has not been floated widely but is believed to have some support within FA, is to add existing A-League teams to the ‘Champions League-style’ second division, which would essentially be a more exclusive version of the existing Australia Cup. Those who support this idea believe it would give FA something tangible to sell to sponsors and broadcasters in the short term which could be built upon in future years and eventually expanded to the singular league that clubs desire.

 

I don't mind this option, as long as they have a significant group stage with either 6 teams in each group or 4 teams per group with home and away legs. It would enable the A League to meet the AFC minimum game per year quota without the extra 4 rounds beyond home and away. I'd overlap the "?chamions league" with the back end of the NPL season with it running through to the start of the A League season. It would be a challenge fitting in FFA cup ties, but schedules can be adjusted  as needed.