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wendybr

By wendybr
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Midfielder

Midfielder

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, Paul01 said:

UK between a rock and a hard place because of US politics

UK diplomats fear end of special relationship if Trump re-elected https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/08/uk-diplomats-fear-end-of-special-relationship-if-trump-re-elected?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

that is a brilliant article.... almost a must read .... good find and thanks for posting...

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StringerBellend

StringerBellend

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Paul01 said:

Looks like Trump's indiscriminate communicationscommunications become curtailed somewhat

Facebook moderators join criticism of Zuckerberg over Trump stance https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jun/08/facebook-moderators-criticism-mark-zuckerberg-donald-trump?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

indiscriminate, "done at random or without careful judgement"

I don't think they are random, as for careful judgement, he knows what hs is doing 

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MartinTyler

MartinTyler

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, Legionista said:

No, no, no.

Not because of US politics, but because they do not know want they want.

A bit of both really....the current US regime has the ability to shaft it's allies at a moments notice whilst the UK was solely focused on Brexit so they dropped the ball with the Coronavirus due to having 2nd rate politicians in their cabinet, a Charlatan as PM an an unelected official calling all the big shots...Chaos on both sides of the Atlantic !! 

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Cynth

Cynth

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Midfielder said:

Almost unbelievable Fox did this graph and even more so that they broadcast it.. they said sorry but defies description.

https://time.com/5849674/fox-news-apologizes-graphic-stock-market-deaths-black-men/

 

 

They needed a backlash before they realised this was disgusting? I wonder what they would have thought if a graph was made of the stock market following murders of white men. FFS the stupidity and the irrelevance! 

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sonar

sonar

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, Cynth said:

They needed a backlash before they realised this was disgusting? I wonder what they would have thought if a graph was made of the stock market following murders of white men. FFS the stupidity and the irrelevance! 

Putting on the tin foil hat you could play the conspiracy theory that Fox is sending a subliminal message to the white folk saying when black people die the markets rise...nudge,nudge,wink,wink. 

***k Murdoch. 

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Cynth

Cynth

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, sonar said:

Putting on the tin foil hat you could play the conspiracy theory that Fox is sending a subliminal message to the white folk saying when black people die the markets rise...nudge,nudge,wink,wink. 

***k Murdoch. 

Lol, not a lover of conspiracy theories but it’s one of two thing.....pure and utter stupidity or there was a purpose to it. :unknw:

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Legionista

Legionista

Posted
Posted
Comforting Abstractions
National Review
Kevin D. Williamson
protest-minnesota-state-house.jpg?fit=78 People attend a rally at the Minnesota State Capitol in St. Paul to protest against the death of George Floyd, May 31, 2020. (Eric Miller/Reuters)

We have real people to hold accountable, and we know their names.

Who is responsible for the mess in Minneapolis? The answer to that question is not unknowable — but it is, in many political quarters, unspeakable.

Minneapolis’s municipal government, its institutions, and its police department are what they are not because of the abstract Hegelian forces of capital-H History, but because of decisions that have been made by people. Who these people are is a matter of public record. We know their names: Jacob Frey, Betsy Hodges, R. T. Rybak, Sharon Sayles Belton, Medaria Arradondo, Janeé Harteau, Tim Walz, Mark Dayton . . . the rogues’ gallery is practically inexhaustible.

But, oh, the transmuting magic of partisanship! Minneapolis is a Democratic city, with a Democratic mayor and a Democratic city council (0.0 Republicans on that body), in a state with a Democratic governor and a Democratic state house; these are the people who hire police chiefs and organize police departments, who specify their procedures and priorities, who write the laws that the police are tasked with enforcing — Democrats and progressives practically to a man. (Not every member of the Minneapolis city council is a Democrat — there’s a Green, too.) That’s a lot of lefty power, hardly anything except lefty power — but, somehow, the bad guy in this story must be Donald Trump.

President Trump is, of course, cooperating mightily with the effort to make him the villain of the piece — his low character, tough-guy strutting, and habitual Twitter buffoonery all go a long way toward that. The Democrats are lucky to have him as a foil. Otherwise, they might be made to really seriously answer some uncomfortable questions, such as: Who has been in charge in Minneapolis lo these many years? Philadelphia? Chicago? Detroit? Los Angeles? Cleveland? Dallas? To the extent that governance matters, how is it that the situations in these communities is to be understood as anything other than the result of practically exclusive Democratic political power? And if Democratic political power is insufficient to turn things around in these places, then why is the answer to the current crisis more Democratic political power?

Cue the retreat into abstraction: The problem mustn’t be political leaders and the decisions they make — that can’t be it, because progressives have all the power in these cities — and so the problem instead must be something without a fixed address and regular business hours: systemic racism, white supremacy, white privilege, capitalism, etc. It isn’t that racism is imaginary, any more than crime, poverty, or government corruption is imaginary. But Minneapolis hasn’t been governed by abstractions all these years. It has been governed by people.

And we know who they are.

This plays out in some obvious ways. For example, some critics of police violence have come around to the view that one of the problems here is the power of police unions, which resist efforts to increase accountability and oversight of their members. There is a political party in this country that is very much committed to increasing the power of public-sector unions, that has worked hard with some success to do that, and that is enormously dependent upon the financial and political support of those unions for its campaign efforts — and it is not called the Republican Party. It’s the other one.

It surely is the case that the African-American children who attend public schools in Philadelphia or Atlanta are subjected to the same racism experienced by other black Americans. But it wasn’t the agents of white supremacy that corrupted their school administrations and made their educational institutions into the dysfunctional failures they are today. It wasn’t David Duke who turned the Atlanta public schools into a criminal conspiracy that ended in racketeering convictions. Progressives have been running the show in big-city school districts for decades, and the mess they are is the mess progressives made of them.

The Democrats are going to have their convention in Milwaukee this year. If Republicans had any wit to them at all, this would present a priceless political opportunity, because Milwaukee is a mess, its schools are an especial mess, and Wisconsin has the biggest black–white academic-achievement gap in the country. Black students in Wisconsin have the second-lowest graduation rate in the country.

When the Democrats gather in Milwaukee, they will do so to nominate Joe Biden for president. Biden points to the situation in Minneapolis and says, See, this is why you need me instead of Trump. The list of legitimate complaints and criticisms of Trump is very, very long, but he wasn’t running the circus when Minneapolis became what Minneapolis is — he was hosting a game show and appearing in softcore pornographic films. Biden, on the other hand, was elected to the Senate in 1973. He was for many years rather proud of being the author of a crime bill that many progressives link to mass incarceration and was a staunch advocate of the so-called war on drugs, which has contributed to the militarization of police departments, both in terms of their arsenals and their attitudes.

Was Joe Biden simply a hostage to his times? Consider that while Biden was pressing for tougher “war on drugs” measures in the 1990s, National Review declared “The War on Drugs Is Lost,” and argued:

It is our judgment that the war on drugs has failed, that it is diverting intelligent energy away from how to deal with the problem of addiction, that it is wasting our resources, and that it is encouraging civil, judicial, and penal procedures associated with police states. We all agree on movement toward legalization, even though we may differ on just how far.

Biden is not a great intellect or an innovative policy thinker, but there were other thinkable thoughts. Donald Trump, who was tied up in bankruptcy court for much of that period in history, was not a key player in the debate.

We live in a remarkably open society. I have observed the workings of our lawmakers and leaders up close for many years, from horrifying city council meetings in San Bernardino to quiet backroom discussions in the House. There is very little mystery to American life, in that regard. We know what decisions have been made, we know what arguments were put forward in the justification of those decisions, and we know who made the decisions and who implemented them.

We have no need to resort to abstraction. We have real people to hold accountable, and we know their names.

In the current crisis, that apparently is the one thing we are unable or unwilling to do.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/06/george-floyd-protests-comforting-abstractions/

 
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Cynth

Cynth

Posted
Posted

It’s an interesting article but it ignores the elephant in the room. I don’t think these local democratic governments deny that systemic racism exists but to address a massive issue such as that at a local level with local police needs for the issue to be acknowledged and there to be a motivation to fix it. Especially when the police force is so fragmented over there. 
 

This current moment, this current grief hopefully is that moment and we can see that now they are starting to act locally. It is however being undermined by the federal government because the wanker in the White House is not only incompetent, lacking empathy, seriously narcissist and ignorant. He also is seriously racist. Which gives the police a supporter of their own systemic racism and will mean ultimately, if the president doesn’t go, police brutality will continue. We can see this by the resistance of the senate to act. 

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theseeker

theseeker

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Cynth said:

It’s an interesting article but it ignores the elephant in the room. I don’t think these local democratic governments deny that systemic racism exists but to address a massive issue such as that at a local level with local police needs for the issue to be acknowledged and there to be a motivation to fix it. Especially when the police force is so fragmented over there. 
 

This current moment, this current grief hopefully is that moment and we can see that now they are starting to act locally. It is however being undermined by the federal government because the wanker in the White House is not only incompetent, lacking empathy, seriously narcissist and ignorant. He also is seriously racist. Which gives the police a supporter of their own systemic racism and will mean ultimately, if the president doesn’t go, police brutality will continue. We can see this by the resistance of the senate to act. 

 

1 hour ago, Cynth said:

It’s an interesting article but it ignores the elephant in the room. I don’t think these local democratic governments deny that systemic racism exists but to address a massive issue such as that at a local level with local police needs for the issue to be acknowledged and there to be a motivation to fix it. Especially when the police force is so fragmented over there. 
 

This current moment, this current grief hopefully is that moment and we can see that now they are starting to act locally. It is however being undermined by the federal government because the wanker in the White House is not only incompetent, lacking empathy, seriously narcissist and ignorant. He also is seriously racist. Which gives the police a supporter of their own systemic racism and will mean ultimately, if the president doesn’t go, police brutality will continue. We can see this by the resistance of the senate to act. 

Why didn't " yes we can" President Barack Ohbummer fix this when he was in office. Same thing was happening when he was in office.

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marron

marron

Posted
Posted

BTW, yes, those decision makers are accountable, for sure. They - like politicians of any stripe - want to cling to power no matter what. Minority group issues are no way to do that, and they know it. Running on Law and Order tickets are standard too. If you want to run on that sort of platform - or even against one - saying cops are racist is not exactly going to work. I've got no problem laying the issue at the feet of generations of politicians.

What we have though is potentially a tipping point. So the question then is - okay, tipping point (maybe) reached - what next?

Trump solution: - > send in the military.

Minneapolis lefty solution - > get rid of state-run law enforcement.

Which, if you think about it, is a little odd, no?

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marron

marron

Posted
Posted

Okay genius, I don't know how Obama could have solved the issue of systemic racism (or, say, Bush, or, Clinton, or Bush, or Reagan, or Ford, or Carter..... ), can you tell me how he should have done it so we can discuss what Trump can do now?

 

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marron

marron

Posted
Posted

(Hint: sending in the national guard, promoting conspiracy theories, blaming extremist groups that don't exist, inferring white supremicist murderers are good people, tweeting 200 times a day, holding rallies on incendiary dates and in stupid locations, clearing protests for photo ops to pretend your Christian, these have all been tried already, don't seem to be working).

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theseeker

theseeker

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, marron said:

Okay genius, I don't know how Obama could have solved the issue of systemic racism (or, say, Bush, or, Clinton, or Bush, or Reagan, or Ford, or Carter..... ), can you tell me how he should have done it so we can discuss what Trump can do now?

 

Pay me the President's money first and I'll tell you.

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Cynth

Cynth

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, theseeker said:

 

Why didn't " yes we can" President Barack Ohbummer fix this when he was in office. Same thing was happening when he was in office.

ok. This is a reasonable question. We can debate why Obama didn’t achieve more. I would say, that the US were never going to let a black president achieve too much and objectively they stopped him at every turn. The ****wit Republicans didn’t work with him. 
 

Anyway we can debate that or we can say that this is THE moment, this is an opportunity. It is unprecedented to see ongoing protests over three weeks. It’s an issue resonating around the world. The time is now. The opportunity is now. And just like it took a forced conservative homophobic government here to achieve same sex marriage, maybe it will take a republican racist government in the US to achieve equal treatment by police and for black loves to matter. :)

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StringerBellend

StringerBellend

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Cynth said:

ok. This is a reasonable question. We can debate why Obama didn’t achieve more. I would say, that the US were never going to let a black president achieve too much and objectively they stopped him at every turn. The ****wit Republicans didn’t work with him. 
 

Anyway we can debate that or we can say that this is THE moment, this is an opportunity. It is unprecedented to see ongoing protests over three weeks. It’s an issue resonating around the world. The time is now. The opportunity is now. And just like it took a forced conservative homophobic government here to achieve same sex marriage, maybe it will take a republican racist government in the US to achieve equal treatment by police and for black loves to matter. :)

The time is now, is why on balance I think the protests In US should go ahead despite Covid 

Less convinced about australia, but like I say I don’t think it’s for me to say 

good luck with the reasonable answer, can’t see you getting one from such an edgy internet warriors 

Edited by StringerBellend
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wendybr

wendybr

Posted
  • Author
Posted
24 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

good luck with the reasonable answer, can’t see you getting one from such an edgy internet warriors 

It's been great to have some debate here today...as of times gone by.

 

PS The Seeker's point was a good one re Obama.

It's such a deep, deep ingrained issue. I'm not really sure it has much to do with any president, tbh. It wouldn't matter what he says, does.... orTweets.

Half the population will cheer him on, the other half will scorn him.

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StringerBellend

StringerBellend

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, wendybr said:

It's been great to have some debate here today...as of times gone by.

 

PS The Seeker's point was a good one re Obama.

It's such a deep, deep ingrained issue. I'm not really sure it has much to do with any president, tbh. It wouldn't matter what he says, does.... orTweets.

Half the population will cheer him on, the other half will scorn him.

It wasn’t a great point it was a child saying your team did it too,

the deep ingrained issue part you have added on, but I fear you are giving him way to much credit 

 overturning years of ingrained cultural racism isnt something that can happen overnight or even in 2 presidential terms and that successive presidents of both sides have tried, some more successfully than others.
 

But that wasn’t the post it read to me as why didn’t your team fix it. when given the opportunity to back it up he resorted to pay me president wages and I’ll tell you 

That’s the problem with these edgy posters fashioning an air of detached coolness

Edited by StringerBellend
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