The Refereeing Thread

[Gazmon]

Don't know if I agree with you Bom, the EPL definetly have higher quality referees & definetly less mistakes (although Mike Dean looks like he wants to go all Ben Williams) but I wouldn't say they let a lot more go. Maybe in championship but not the EPL.

 

They've been professional a lot longer than the A-League (not that it helps much here...), but they also have the benefit of being in closer proximity to each other. One of the biggest challenges we had was getting everyone together regularly. We'd all meet, usually in Canberra, before a season for a few days and that was it. The rest was done via video conference or just chatting at training sessions. But, in the UK they meet every couple of weeks as a group to discuss. Easier with more money too (i.e. flights, travel, etc.). That's one small part of it, there are other factors too. The EPL referees are older, hence more experienced. Perhaps that has an impact? The A-League referees, as a general rule, are much, much younger.

[Prydzopolis]

A further point on older referees in the EPL, the fact that they have been professional for much longer means that they don't need to retire until they reach 45 whereas in Australia (and have been professional for many years) they need to consider a life after football. This means that the experience of these referees are not lost & kept in the system for longer.

[Gazmon]

A further point on older referees in the EPL, the fact that they have been professional for much longer means that they don't need to retire until they reach 45 whereas in Australia (and have been professional for many years) they need to consider a life after football. This means that the experience of these referees are not lost & kept in the system for longer.

 

Very true.

 

The systems are just very, very different.

 

Would also like to see more referees involved with the post-game analysis. I know they've had Mark Shield on once or twice, but a regular spot would be great. Hopefully with the new TV-deal in next season there's room for a lounge-type show on a Tuesday night, or even a Monday after/before the review show. They can discuss the game and any incidents as part of that show. Would be great to explain incidents from a referee's perspective on a regular basis.

[jdrudd91]

 

 

 

I have no issue at all with video referees as long as they are only used for major incidences such as goal decisions or serious foul play.

The main thing for me is that they get the decisions correct. If it takes a little longer to clarify a tight call then so be it.

The VAR will be for OBVIOUS ERRORS for penalties, red cards, goals and mistaken identity only.http://quality.fifa.com/en/var/#used

In the A-league that will be every 5 minutes

Especially if Gillett or Beath are involved

 

Shawn Evans says hello

[tardotz]

It seems that the proffesional referees are the ones that end up with all the controversial calls. Not sure if it's because (a) they ref the more important games,(b) have been given different instructions,© they want to be the center of attention or (d) they are just incompetent.

[Edinburgh]

[e] all of the above

[Prydzopolis]

Gaz: Spot on

 

I was talking to some people in the broadcast of football but there is a reluctance at the moment for referees to be involved in the broadcast.

- The last time they had a referee on the panel, they felt that they were almost looking to create controversy where there was none. I don't think they'll have this problem now.

- Most of the referees approached have turned down a role, why? The referee community is very tight knit & they don't want to come across as being critical or calling out there colleagues.

[Unlimited]

Gaz: Spot on

 

I was talking to some people in the broadcast of football but there is a reluctance at the moment for referees to be involved in the broadcast.

- The last time they had a referee on the panel, they felt that they were almost looking to create controversy where there was none. I don't think they'll have this problem now.

- Most of the referees approached have turned down a role, why? The referee community is very tight knit & they don't want to come across as being critical or calling out there colleagues.

 

why not an ex-referee who doesn't care anymore

[Gazmon]

 

Gaz: Spot on

 

I was talking to some people in the broadcast of football but there is a reluctance at the moment for referees to be involved in the broadcast.

- The last time they had a referee on the panel, they felt that they were almost looking to create controversy where there was none. I don't think they'll have this problem now.

- Most of the referees approached have turned down a role, why? The referee community is very tight knit & they don't want to come across as being critical or calling out there colleagues.

 

why not an ex-referee who doesn't care anymore

 

 

Happy to offer my services!

 

Many people are still involved in the game and don't want to burn bridges. Understandable. But, surely there's an old-non-A-League referee around that might want to help out.

[Prydzopolis]

No offense Gaz but I think they are looking for high profile targets who have just recently retired from the A-League.

 

Would love something to though

[Prydzopolis]

[Gazmon]

No offense Gaz but I think they are looking for high profile targets who have just recently retired from the A-League.

 

Would love something to though

 

Was tongue-in-cheek

 

If only we had our own show with a TV board to draw on and everything... 

[HillsPanther]

Gaz: Spot on

I was talking to some people in the broadcast of football but there is a reluctance at the moment for referees to be involved in the broadcast.

- The last time they had a referee on the panel, they felt that they were almost looking to create controversy where there was none. I don't think they'll have this problem now.

- Most of the referees approached have turned down a role, why? The referee community is very tight knit & they don't want to come across as being critical or calling out there colleagues.

Un-written rule in most refereeing associations. You do not criticise another referee.

[Prydzopolis]

I think it is a professional courtesy, when you criticise another referee for something you have made in the past is very hypocritical. Especially when a majority of the criticism made by non-referees are irrelevant for a number of reasons (do they know the laws/interpretations or a failure to realise the of the difficulty of refereeing or do they understand why the referee made that call etc). I do believe there is a big difference between just plain criticising in the form of a rant & criticism in the form of constructive break down of why a decision was made & why is was correctly/wrongly criticised. They also have an opportunity to highlight how a difficult situation was correctly made by a referee & why that was the case, so it can go both ways.

 

The thing that is frustrating is that referee's appear to be very insular & no intention of trying to help people understand from grassroots level to professional. It is one thing to play the game but another thing to understand the LOTG. I really believe that there is a big opportunity to help people learn. For example, as a grass roots referee we are told not to discuss the game afterwards with players or the number of times I have asked the referee why he made a decision in the game have been repeatedly stone walled. At a professional level it is only recently that referees have started to apologise to managers for poor decisions (just recently in Newcatsle match, apology was made for two bad calls in Victory vs Jets game) whereas in the past referees have been unable to say anything & discouraged for trying to come out to talk about decisions publicly.

 

I know last year they started to ask referees post match why they made decisions but most of the time it appeared that referees were trying to cover there arse as opposed to just admitting they made a mistake. By creating an Australian version of Ref watch I think will be great step forward to make Australian referees better & lift the standard across the league.

[Unlimited]

I got an email today about possibly getting a Level 2 refereeing qualification

 

Very tempting, because I do enjoy the theoretical part of it all - but I feel I won't be able to complement it with regular attendance at training and the like, especially after I start my full time job

 

Should I?

[jackyboyc]

I got an email today about possibly getting a Level 2 refereeing qualification

Very tempting, because I do enjoy the theoretical part of it all - but I feel I won't be able to complement it with regular attendance at training and the like, especially after I start my full time job

Should I?

If you're any good I'd say go for it. There are too many garbage referees out there

[Unlimited]

well I think I'm decent

 

 

Nah, I need work on fitness - like sometimes the U20s matches are end to end and that involves a lot of running and I get puffed out by the end of the game

 

I feel my foul recognition is pretty good, although I'm not very good at handball and those 50/50 challenges (like when a striker and defender are jostling for position for a header, sometimes what I allow for pushing and shoving and jostling is a bit off)

 

I think my man management could be better, and trying to talk to the players - I feel I come off a little stand off-ish, and go to cards too readily for dissent

 

Decision making for throw-ins and goal kicks and corners I feel is pretty good, umm... I think my application of advantage is quite good, teamwork with assistants is also quite good, knowledge of the laws is also good enough...

 

 

Also I do make a habit of asking my assistants how I'm going during half time and at full time, if they're not 12 year olds. I'll ask them for their opinion on certain things I did, and the like.

 

Just writing this makes me want to get back out there

[Prydzopolis]

Go for it dude

 

Just got to back yourself a bit more, definitely have an issue with confidence & that isn't just relating to football.

[Paul01]

well I think I'm decent

 

 

Nah, I need work on fitness - like sometimes the U20s matches are end to end and that involves a lot of running and I get puffed out by the end of the game

 

I feel my foul recognition is pretty good, although I'm not very good at handball and those 50/50 challenges (like when a striker and defender are jostling for position for a header, sometimes what I allow for pushing and shoving and jostling is a bit off)

 

I think my man management could be better, and trying to talk to the players - I feel I come off a little stand off-ish, and go to cards too readily for dissent

 

Decision making for throw-ins and goal kicks and corners I feel is pretty good, umm... I think my application of advantage is quite good, teamwork with assistants is also quite good, knowledge of the laws is also good enough...

 

 

Also I do make a habit of asking my assistants how I'm going during half time and at full time, if they're not 12 year olds. I'll ask them for their opinion on certain things I did, and the like.

 

Just writing this makes me want to get back out there

Go for it.

Why don't you tell your assistant Referees what YOU want them to look out for before you start the game.

 

The season is nearly upon us so start your fitness campaign now.

Power walks along the beach or elsewhere plus take trial games for lower divisions. Even some u11 teams can make you 10km in a game!

[wswtragic]

When is FFA going to step in and do something about the standard of officiating? I'm no defender of the Tards, and less so again of Berisha, but the only people who should have had red cards last night were the referee and linesman.

The A-League is ****ed whilever the abysmal incompetence of referees becomes a bigger story than the match itself. And it happens pretty much every week.

[wswtragic]

I reckon Beath would have sent off the guy at the end of this football clip.

https://youtu.be/YStuNiouiW4

[Prydzopolis]

So everyone is just mad at the red card?

[wswtragic]

So everyone is just mad at the red card?

No - it was simply the worst of it (though arguably the pen was as bad in the sense of game changer).

 

They are just shitful refs.

[smp]

I think it is a professional courtesy, when you criticise another referee for something you have made in the past is very hypocritical. Especially when a majority of the criticism made by non-referees are irrelevant for a number of reasons (do they know the laws/interpretations or a failure to realise the of the difficulty of refereeing or do they understand why the referee made that call etc). I do believe there is a big difference between just plain criticising in the form of a rant & criticism in the form of constructive break down of why a decision was made & why is was correctly/wrongly criticised. They also have an opportunity to highlight how a difficult situation was correctly made by a referee & why that was the case, so it can go both ways.

The thing that is frustrating is that referee's appear to be very insular & no intention of trying to help people understand from grassroots level to professional. It is one thing to play the game but another thing to understand the LOTG. I really believe that there is a big opportunity to help people learn. For example, as a grass roots referee we are told not to discuss the game afterwards with players or the number of times I have asked the referee why he made a decision in the game have been repeatedly stone walled. At a professional level it is only recently that referees have started to apologise to managers for poor decisions (just recently in Newcatsle match, apology was made for two bad calls in Victory vs Jets game) whereas in the past referees have been unable to say anything & discouraged for trying to come out to talk about decisions publicly.

I know last year they started to ask referees post match why they made decisions but most of the time it appeared that referees were trying to cover there arse as opposed to just admitting they made a mistake. By creating an Australian version of Ref watch I think will be great step forward to make Australian referees better & lift the standard across the league.

The thing about Ref Watch (which is a big part of why I love watching Football Today - Tuesday) is that the ex-refs that come on appear to be a pool of "approved" commentators with permission and/or authority to make statements. There's no reason the ref's association can't nominate a couple of former refs (Shieldsy would be a good option - always had time for him), brief them up and them give them the stamp of approval. There's plenty of ways to say "with the benefit of hindsight and the extra footage from other angles, old mate would probably make a different decision" without violating the unwritten codes of the profession.

[luisenrique]

Let's not beat around the bush here...Green saw exactly what happened. I was watching on a ******* stream on the other side of the world and I could see that there was at the very least a deflection. He was looking right at it.

 

He bottled it, simple. I think he was afraid of giving a handball so soon after the one he just gave, and in the process he forget about the corner.

 

How Grant got away with that tackle at the start of the 2nd half is another mystery.

 

And yeah...he has a history of poor handball calls against us. I think he just doesn't like us.

[Prydzopolis]

smp - spot on

 

wswtragic - nobody was arguing the penalty, it might have been contentious but i think he was well within his rights to give it

 

Anyone got a clip of the handball? From my view, first handball was right, arm away from the body & correct call but wasn't sure about the second. In all honesty by giving a goal kick it tells us he didn't see the contact with the player let alone the arm.

[wswtragic]

smp - spot on

 

wswtragic - nobody was arguing the penalty, it might have been contentious but i think he was well within his rights to give it

 

Anyone got a clip of the handball? From my view, first handball was right, arm away from the body & correct call but wasn't sure about the second. In all honesty by giving a goal kick it tells us he didn't see the contact with the player let alone the arm.

I'm sorry - if his awareness was that poor, he shouldn't be refereeing.

 

Even if he didn't see the contact with the arm, how could he possibly miss the deflection?

[Prydzopolis]

I'd like to see a clip before commenting further, view from the RBB wasn't great

[Zelinsky]

I bumped into Andreu at Sydney airport after last season's pyro party against the VIC. He mentioned how bad the refs are in the HAL, and shook his head in disbelief.

 

High time for the video ref. There is a fourth official who's one purpose seems to be to cop it from disgruntled coaches. Put them to better use. The refs demonstrate every week that they are not up to scratch. They need help.

I'd like to see a clip before commenting further, view from the RBB wasn't great

SBS www has a link.

[Prydzopolis]

Have just seen it on Fox Sports news:

- WOW I didn't realise it was so obvious, wasn't just a small deflection but a huge one

- Zullo tries to tuck his arm in but hits his arm as he moves his arm towards his body. Hits him when his arm is away from his body

- No excuse could be given to distance from the ball to the player

 

I do feel sorry for him because it was a clear handball but Grant walks across the referees line of sight. The contact is made in such a way that AR can't offer any assistance & the referee is left helpless. If a referee is unsure, then no foul or penalty is given. I see this as a perfect use for video referee.

 

I remember hearing an interview with Howard Webb regarding THAT tackle in the WC final when the Dutch player connected with Spanish player head. He was saying that from his angle he saw a high foot but no contact & he felt helpless because it was obvious to all around him that it was a red but he didn't see it so couldn't it. If you referee, you'd sympathise with Howard Webb or Peter Green in this circumstance. The fact that he gave a goal kick tells the story.

 

Question is, Taurus and Mack have suggested that video referees have been assisting on field referees in giving decisions on the field. The question is why they weren't available during this game for us & have been available for other teams in the past.