World Cup 2018

[Smoggy]

Get home tonight and the wife says that she wants to go to IKEA this Saturday to get my son a new desk to do school work on.....**** that right off....not going anywhere near the Swedish flat pack bastards on Saturday.....

The wife doesn't get it...but on principle I refuse to go there Saturday.....plus I can't ******* stand the place at the best of times....

[Carns]

44 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

Get home tonight and the wife says that she wants to go to IKEA this Saturday to get my son a new desk to do school work on.....**** that right off....not going anywhere near the Swedish flat pack bastards on Saturday.....

The wife doesn't get it...but on principle I refuse to go there Saturday.....plus I can't ******* stand the place at the best of times....

The only way I go to IKEA is if the better half has already scoped out what she wants online, and we enter through the exit and don't go through the "showroom", just straight to the warehouse area. In and out in as little time as possible.

I wouldn't venture there on a Saturday because its an absolute shitfight. Go during the week, its open till 9pm.

[Wanderboy]

20 minutes ago, Carns said:

The only way I go to IKEA is if the better half has already scoped out what she wants online, and we enter through the exit and don't go through the "showroom", just straight to the warehouse area. In and out in as little time as possible.

I wouldn't venture there on a Saturday because its an absolute shitfight. Go during the week, its open till 9pm.

 

I only go to IKEA for the Swedish meatballs and gravy. ******* sensational!! I walk into their cheap arsed café, eat, then walk back out again.

In respect of my Smoggy mate, I WILL NOT eat any Swedish meatballs this week. Although, I will have them at the ready when they win.

Edited July 4, 2018 by Wanderboy

[Smoggy]

13 minutes ago, Wanderboy said:

 

I only go to IKEA for the Swedish meatballs and gravy. ******* sensational!! I walk into their cheap arsed café, eat, then walk back out again.

In respect of my Smoggy mate, I WILL NOT eat any Swedish meatballs this week. Although, I will have them at the ready when they win.

Meatballs from a hardware furniture store...........................mmmmmmmmm got to be full of goodness right lol Wonder how much horse they put in them these days.

I am off to Peru's the IKEA catalog anyway, be in-dane not to look before going, you'd be as mad as a box of frogs not to.....so yeah.....over and out  

Edited July 4, 2018 by Smoggy

[Smoggy]

34 minutes ago, Carns said:

enter through the exit and don't go through the "showroom"

 

To be fair...entering through the exit is always a bit tricky.

[Wanderboy]

8 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

Meatballs from a hardware furniture store...........................mmmmmmmmm got to be full of goodness right lol Wonder how much horse they put in them these days.

I am off to Peru's the IKEA catalog anyway, be in-dane not to look before going, you'd be as mad as a box of frogs not to.....so yeah.....over and out  

Horse? I couldn't give a **** if it was reindeer from Finland or Chilean alpaca. Still tastes delicious.

And...… off to the pun thread for you.

Edited July 4, 2018 by Wanderboy

[Smoggy]

4 minutes ago, Wanderboy said:

Horse? I couldn't give a **** if it was reindeer from Finland or Chilean alpaca. Still tastes delicious.

And...… off to the pun thread for you.

You saved yourself there by saying alpaca rather than Peruvian Llama!

Edited July 4, 2018 by Smoggy

[Wanderboy]

10 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

You saved yourself there by saying alpaca rather than Peruvian Llama!

Llama/Alpaca. Tomato/Potatoe.

Edited July 4, 2018 by Wanderboy

[Edinburgh]

2 hours ago, Smoggy said:

Get home tonight and the wife says that she wants to go to IKEA this Saturday to get my son a new desk to do school work on.....**** that right off....not going anywhere near the Swedish flat pack bastards on Saturday.....

The wife doesn't get it...but on principle I refuse to go there Saturday.....plus I can't ******* stand the place at the best of times....

Plus you'll then have to put the thing together!

[luisenrique]

Neither side covered themselves in glory last night, either in terms of football or behaviour. It's funny reading reactions online...every Colombian thinks the English were cheating, and vice versa! Just goes to show how bias can completely change how you view a match. From a neutral's point of view, I thought Colombia definitely went in with a tactic to needle the English and pick fights, but England were definitely guilty of a dive or two as well. 

Massive for England to finally win a penalty shootout, because I'm pretty sure there's gonna be another one against Sweden. In terms of the actual football both teams were very poor, and further reinforced the massive imbalance between both sides of the draw. Every team on the other side has been way, way better than every team on the easy side.

Overall I think England just about deserved to win, they didn't create much but they were the attacking side for most of the game. Colombia only really started playing at the end when things got desperate and mysteriously in the first half of extra time, when they suddenly looked really good.

 

[MartinTyler]

7 hours ago, luisenrique said:

 

Massive for England to finally win a penalty shootout, because I'm pretty sure there's gonna be another one against Sweden. In terms of the actual football both teams were very poor, and further reinforced the massive imbalance between both sides of the draw. Every team on the other side has been way, way better than every team on the easy side.

 

 

There's no significant 'imbalance' in the draw as such. It's just that some of the more fancied teams either bombed out or finished second in their group.Let's face it every team has had it's poor moments and at the end of the day the winner will be the team which has endurance and has done the majority of things right. At the moment that could even be England !!

[Smoggy]

43 minutes ago, MartinTyler said:

There's no significant 'imbalance' in the draw as such. It's just that some of the more fancied teams either bombed out or finished second in their group.Let's face it every team has had it's poor moments and at the end of the day the winner will be the team which has endurance and has done the majority of things right. At the moment that could even be England !!

Good post, Spain for example would have stood in England's way.

Not sure my nerves can take another penna shoot out...or my teeth....or my wife.........

 

[sonar]

1 hour ago, MartinTyler said:

There's no significant 'imbalance' in the draw as such. It's just that some of the more fancied teams either bombed out or finished second in their group.Let's face it every team has had it's poor moments and at the end of the day the winner will be the team which has endurance and has done the majority of things right. At the moment that could even be England !!

.....and some of the "minow nations" stood up and played above what was expected of them. I have a sense that the gap between the top teams and the others is dwindling mainly due to better use of technology and improving coaching and standards around the world.

Europe and South America will always be strong but other nations no longer fear to play them which has to be good for the game.The only exception would be Oceania which in my opinion should merge with Asia, giving Asia 5 spots.

I would also like to see Asia have a qualifying similar to the Sth Americans where instead of two groups of six have one group of 10 or 12 with 18 or 22 rounds.You would get 9 or 11 home matches not the current 5, which has to be better financially for the National Federations in regards to income,especially for us (FFA).

Edited July 4, 2018 by sonar

[LeeMarvin]

On 04/07/2018 at 7:19 AM, StringerBellend said:

Any room left on that bandwagon guys?

Not sure if talking about betting is against the forum rules, but while not usually an England supporter am going for them this time as I put $100 on at 10 to 1 to win the cup.

In any case, I think it is fair enough that they should win the thing every 50 years or so.  However, I can't get over how mean spirited the Scots and Irish at work are - not even the slightest scrap of good will towards England.

[Edinburgh]

3 hours ago, LeeMarvin said:

Not sure if talking about betting is against the forum rules, but while not usually an England supporter am going for them this time as I put $100 on at 10 to 1 to win the cup.

In any case, I think it is fair enough that they should win the thing every 50 years or so.  However, I can't get over how mean spirited the Scots and Irish at work are - not even the slightest scrap of good will towards England.

I recall that when England won it in 1966, the great Denis Law when told the the result was p'd off and exclaimed something like "xxxxxx they would wouldn't they"

 

[btron3000]

22 hours ago, luisenrique said:

Neither side covered themselves in glory last night, either in terms of football or behaviour. It's funny reading reactions online...every Colombian thinks the English were cheating, and vice versa! Just goes to show how bias can completely change how you view a match. From a neutral's point of view, I thought Colombia definitely went in with a tactic to needle the English and pick fights, but England were definitely guilty of a dive or two as well. 

Massive for England to finally win a penalty shootout, because I'm pretty sure there's gonna be another one against Sweden. In terms of the actual football both teams were very poor, and further reinforced the massive imbalance between both sides of the draw. Every team on the other side has been way, way better than every team on the easy side.

Overall I think England just about deserved to win, they didn't create much but they were the attacking side for most of the game. Colombia only really started playing at the end when things got desperate and mysteriously in the first half of extra time, when they suddenly looked really good.

 

I was sick today and watched it again to test this bias thing, and see if I could watch objectively.  I agree with most of the review (not too sure about the prediction, though I think there's a big chance of ET against Sweden) except the part where Colombia went in to neede England and pick fights. There was nothing to resemble needle until the 32nd or 35th minute or something like that, pretty sure that if that was a tactic they'd have started earlier than that. I think it was more a case of certain combustible personalities (on both sides) and the occasion. 

 

[Smoggy]

22 minutes ago, btron3000 said:

I was sick today and watched it again to test this bias thing, and see if I could watch objectively.  I agree with most of the review (not too sure about the prediction, though I think there's a big chance of ET against Sweden) except the part where Colombia went in to neede England and pick fights. There was nothing to resemble needle until the 32nd or 35th minute or something like that, pretty sure that if that was a tactic they'd have started earlier than that. I think it was more a case of certain combustible personalities (on both sides) and the occasion. 

 

lol Colombia were scum bags, did you see them hacking at the penna spot with their boots whilst the other Colombian players spent 4 minutes surrounding the ref protesting.. deliberately delaying the penna...Then there was the Colombian coach who deliberately barged in to Sterling in the tunnel at half time. Then there was the headbutt which could / should have been a red. They were niggling the whole game.

[Smoggy]

12 hours ago, LeeMarvin said:

Not sure if talking about betting is against the forum rules, but while not usually an England supporter am going for them this time as I put $100 on at 10 to 1 to win the cup.

In any case, I think it is fair enough that they should win the thing every 50 years or so.  However, I can't get over how mean spirited the Scots and Irish at work are - not even the slightest scrap of good will towards England.

ugghhhh the sweaties are well balanced, they have a good sized chip on each shoulder.

I was in Aviemore, Scotland for the group stages of the 2010 world cup, doing some walking in the Cairngorms. I went to a supermarket to get some supplies for an England game that evening. Fat ginger sweatie chunt serving says 'aye..hope ya get beat tonight'......and not said in a lets have a bit of banter and a laugh kinda way, it was serious, deadpan and with feeling lol

I actually don't give a **** lol If someone wants some banter great...I mean I have loved winding Wendy up this world cup...but many Scots take it all a bit too seriously. 

Anyway, as I walked away I smiled at him and wished him a good day...and he stood there with his fat ****er face looking miserable....I bet he is still there now...at his check out till......living the dream.......

 

Edited July 5, 2018 by Smoggy

[btron3000]

44 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

lol Colombia were scum bags, did you see them hacking at the penna spot with their boots whilst the other Colombian players spent 4 minutes surrounding the ref protesting.. deliberately delaying the penna...Then there was the Colombian coach who deliberately barged in to Sterling in the tunnel at half time. Then there was the headbutt which could / should have been a red. They were niggling the whole game.

Mate, I watched it again today to specifically look at the "niggle".  The niggle only lasted between about the 35th and 65th minutes. There was no coordinated plan to do this.

Most of the time both teams were to blame. For example, the first bit of niggle was a "two to tango" scenario where both Cuadrado and Maguire barged into each other chasing down a long ball. Cuadrado leaned in first, but Maguire met him with a nice strong shoulder/then push with the forearm, don't worry about that. Both players then bounced off each and came back for a second barge. 

Before that, the only things that had occured were during England corners. On one, two seperate pairs of players fell down, but the cameras didn't catch what happened. On another, Stones blatantly pushed his marker in the middle of the chest, earning Colombia a free kick. On another, Kane clearly pushed to get rid of his marker (no free kick awarded). But none of these drew any special attention or mention from commentators.

Then the headbutt started a section of the game where there was a lot of issues, but England were involved in these as much as Colombia. Maguire took a dive in the box, Henderson gave a little headflick of his own, and Stones dragged his boot across Falcao, which was definitely intentional. I'm not saying Colombia were saints, but as luisenrique pointed out, there is some massive bias here from both sides.  And when the press and commentary we get is the English speaking, and often directly from England, that is the bias we see and hear.

And yeah, I saw the Colombian rough up the penalty spot. Hilarious! But that doesn't mean that everything else was Colombia's fault. But I'm gonna break down some moments and do a little exercise, just give me 10 min or so...

 

EDIT: Also, Pekerman is 68 years old! I highly doubt he's going toe-to-toe with a kid.

Edited July 5, 2018 by btron3000

[luisenrique]

16 hours ago, MartinTyler said:

There's no significant 'imbalance' in the draw as such. It's just that some of the more fancied teams either bombed out or finished second in their group.Let's face it every team has had it's poor moments and at the end of the day the winner will be the team which has endurance and has done the majority of things right. At the moment that could even be England !!

I didn't mean there was a conspiracy, I'm just saying that one side of the draw has the four best out of the eight teams still left in it.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jul/04/cloud-hanging-world-cup-fifa-england-colombia

Quote

But take off your three lions shirt for a moment, put down your St George’s flag, watch the game again and England’s players were no angels. Jordan Henderson and Harry Maguire (and, yes, the Leicester defender did at least hold up his hands after he took a tumble) were among those exaggerating or feigning contact.

Gareth Southgate was asked about England’s conduct afterwards by a Russian journalist, who suggested to him that the current generation of players, unlike the team that the manager had been part of in the 90s, “falls down every time the wind blows”. Southgate, a dignified man working in an undignified game, replied: “Maybe we’re getting a bit smarter. Maybe we’re now playing by the rules the rest of the world are playing by.

Even Martin Tyler on commentary said that England have a clear tactic to push around in the box and then go down. He seemed pretty unimpressed by it.

[btron3000]

Having watched the England-Colombia game again today, I have come to the conclusion that not only do we see the game through our own bias of who we support, but that there is a very big element of, shall we say, racial stereotyping in the way we perceive games.  Don't worry, I'm not going to go all social justice warrior on people, I actually love the cliches or stereotypes sometimes. And they often come for very good reason - luisenrique and I have had a great time laughing at some of the loco stuff that happens at the Copa America tournaments.

However, this game made me see it for the first time from both perspectives, as I was supporting Colombia but of course am anglo. Let's take a few of the big incidents in the game. 

The headbutt

• Colombia was trying to set up the wall and Lingard and Henderson both started jostling Barrios around, shoving him out of the wall, at one stage one of them actually gave him a full push where their arms were fully extended by the end of it. Barrios responded by using his body to push back at first and then swinging his head into Henderson’s chest and up into his chin, making clear but not very strong contact. Then Henderson fell back and writhed around on the ground while his teammates complained to the ref and Maguire went off doing the VAR signals to the sideline.

As an exercise, let's reverse that:

• England was trying to set up the wall and Sanchez and Falcao both started jostling Walker around, shoving him out of the wall, at one stage one of them actually gave him a full push where their arms were fully extended by the end of it. Walker responded by using his body to push back at first and then swinging his head into Falcao’s chest and up into his chin, making clear but not very strong contact. Then Falcao fell back and writhed around on the ground while his teammates complained to the ref and Mina went off doing the VAR signals to the sideline.

Without a shadow of a doubt if that second example happens, English fans claim that their stupid player got suckered by dodgy South American tactics.  But all we got this time was talk of combustible, dirty Colombians.

Maguire goes down

Maguire was in the box, the defender stuck out a foot but didn't get him, Maguire goes down. He then gets up waving a finger towards the ref. The Colombians were enraged and Falcao got in the ref's face, and received a yellow card. 

Again, imagine it's a Colombian - or any South American team actually - who went down in the box and then waved a finger at the ref. 

The Colombians clearly overreacted in this situation, but if the roles were reversed I guarantee you people would be outraged that their team member got a yellow for arguig about the dive, especially when we know how badly those South Americans dive.

Stones rakes his boot across Falcao

A goal kick is punted upfield, Falcao backs into Stones, and goes down. Free kick awarded to Colombia. I think the ref got the call wrong, Stones was just holding his ground.  But anyway, while disentangling himself, Stones swings his boot with unnecesary force and it slides across Falcao's head. Falcao puts his hands to his face dramatically. This is a massive overreation by Falcao because he was barely touched, but the fact is that he was touched by an aggresively swung boot. Again, switch the sides and imagine a South American team running their boot across the face of the opposition. Would there EVER be any doubt it was done on purpose?

 

These last two examples get next to no focus in the English speaking press or on social media, while roughing up the penalty spot (lol) and the headbutt get everything.  And the headbutt stories ignore that the dude was trying to take his place in the wall and the shocking overreaction by the English players.

Southgate sort of admitted it in the article posted above, but he also defended his team's discipline. He's a nice guy, isn't he, Southgate? He'd never have his team doing anything untoward to win, would he now? Please.  I REALLY like Southgate, but I think he's a bit of a smiling assassin. Butter wouldn't melt in his mouth. 

There were other times when English players went down with minimal contact and lay around - Kane did it at least once - but then got up when the ref ignored them.  England, funnily enough, were often the nigglers and Colombia the ones to react aggresively.

 

Ok, that took longer than 10 min, got a bit carried away lol

 

[luisenrique]

Good points well made.

Kane went down easily throughout the match, because it's a clear tactic of England's to win as many set pieces as possible, and then try to win penalties from those.

Also our English mate just said in our group chat, and I quote 'I got pissed off seeing our lot throw themselves to the floor. I hate that it's now part of the English game.'

[Smoggy]

Lol's to the above posts....

[LeeMarvin]

8 hours ago, btron3000 said:

Ok, that took longer than 10 min, got a bit carried away lol

Btron - I think you have the makings of a Chief Football Analyst in you there.  Look out Craig Foster!

 

[btron3000]

54 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

Lol's to the above posts....

Mate why don’t you just admit it - your team is more than willing to get involved in niggle and dodgy tactics.

As well as our English mate that hates it that English players dive, we’ve got another one that will happily admit it. “Beat the dirty ****ers at their own game” he’ll say.

But the majority of English press, fans, players, admin refuse to admit it - I mean, why would you if it helps with the refs?

There is also the cultural aspect of what is dodgy. English fans, coaches and players aren’t afraid to put the boot in or test the mettle of other teams, but diving is a definite no-no and cheating!

It’s these cultural difference that make the World Cup great. I don’t expect to see Colombia and England getting along anytime soon!

[sonar]

Lobbing grenade ..............lol

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/colombia-the-dirtiest-team-i-ve-ever-played-says-england-s-stones

"They are probably the dirtiest team I've ever come up against, in respect of when we won the penalty, surrounding the referee, pushing the referee, the headbutt that you've all seen, scuffing the penalty spot..........."Some things I hadn't even seen, the incident with Raheem and one of their staff - I've never seen a game like this before and how they behaved," he said.............."At the end of the day they're back on the plane, we're still here."

 

 

[Smoggy]

1 hour ago, btron3000 said:

Mate why don’t you just admit it - your team is more than willing to get involved in niggle and dodgy tactics.

As well as our English mate that hates it that English players dive, we’ve got another one that will happily admit it. “Beat the dirty ****ers at their own game” he’ll say.

But the majority of English press, fans, players, admin refuse to admit it - I mean, why would you if it helps with the refs?

There is also the cultural aspect of what is dodgy. English fans, coaches and players aren’t afraid to put the boot in or test the mettle of other teams, but diving is a definite no-no and cheating!

It’s these cultural difference that make the World Cup great. I don’t expect to see Colombia and England getting along anytime soon!

Mate, what do you do when you are getting bullied and pushed around and put off your normal game, when the opposition players are surrounding the ref and delaying everything and when the refs back is turned digging up the pitch, what do you do when one of your players gets barged around in the tunnel? You stand up because if you try to play your normal game you will get beaten....it might sound childish 'but they started it' and all that but who cares....the ref lost control, didn't know how to deal with the Colombians and England got stuck in and stood up for themselves and showed great character in a very hostile stadium which I am told was very much like an away game. Good on England for standing up to them and sending them home, you would have expected no less from Australia if the opposition went in as hard.

Colombia are home by now anyway and the competition has moved on and who the **** cares how England got here  I have watched England since 1986 and so have been through all the hard times so I expect nothing, the penna shoot out win for me was a thrill after so many defeats....I will be disappointed when they go out tomorrow but I will take that penna shoot out win all day and the fact that this young team looks like going places in the future.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2018 by Smoggy

[Smoggy]

Rumor has it that when the WC is over there is more to come out about what happened against Colombia, hearing from the Boro board all kinds of stuff went on that isn't yet fully made known......the game is over...Colombia are out but this may well be returned to at a later date....

 

"There was also a lot of off the ball stuff that I'm sure you've not heard about - all the sort of things that you don't really hear in a football match."

Asked to expand on the other Colombian spoiling tactics, Stones said: "I'd rather not say, otherwise I reckon it could get me in a bit of trouble.

"You have seen the clips from the game and I'd not even seen the incident with Raheem Sterling and one of their staff."

[btron3000]

I think we’re kinda talking about different things here smoggy. I’m not saying Colombia were angels. For example, the constant haranguing of the referee is disgraceful and has been a blight on the game for years. If I was a ref, I’d tell both teams before the match “I’m allowing the initial outburst after a decision - y’know, like a “**** off”, but after that if you get in my face the cards are coming out”.

But again, this wasn’t one way traffic, Colombia’s was just a lot more visual and vicious (mainly Falcao and he eventually copped a booking). I distinctly remember a Man U team surrounding the ref in similar ways, this isn’t just a South American thing.

All I’m saying is that, if people care to watch the game specifically for the niggles, you’re not going to see one team behaving more horribly than the other.  What you’ve got is essentially two big moments from Colombia - pen and headbutt. Both bad. You’ve also got the harassing of the ref when Maguire went down. Again, bad. But from the England side you’ve got a dive in the box, a goading for the pen (and exaggerated response), a headflick of their own (all minor incidents) and a boot rake (real bad). Both teams were guilty of rolling around on the ground. Plus you’ve got the English tactic of starting the shoving in the box and then getting pens when other teams respond by grabbing.

If there’s more info to come then I’ll happily re-assess. But without doubt most English people are basing their opinions on the emotions they went through during the game and the comments from their players.

And when one of the comments from Stones is that his celebration wasn’t aimed at the Colombian players when it’s pretty clear he’s turned to look their way instead of going off in the direction of his teammates, why are their opinions to be believed?

It’s professional sport, people don’t need to be angels. But England always seems to need a reason for any poor behaviour - “they started it”, “unfortunately that’s the way the game is” etc etc - and want to hold themselves up as something pure. Don’t get me wrong - so do Aussies. For example, our attitude when one of ours is caught doping is completely different to when others are. We refused on many levels to believe we tried to bribe FIFA for the WC etc. It’s the very reason everyone was scoffing when the cricketers got caught ball tampering. Stop saying you’re above stuff.

In some ways it’s a good thing that our countries don’t want to just accept bad sportsmanship or “streetsmarts”, but at the same time it makes us hypocrites when our teams do it.

[Smoggy]

1 hour ago, btron3000 said:

 English people are basing their opinions on the emotions they went through during the game and the comments from their players.

 

NNNNOOOOOOOOOOO, really, Fans of a football team seeing things from their teams perspective to other people who are not fans of said football team......well **** me......lol You know what, we should have football forums to discuss this kind of thing.