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wendybr

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wendybr

wendybr

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What's the worst that can happen??

Mack can only shut this one down too, :lol::lol:

A lefty friend sent me this last night, following a discussion about similar issues...which he has only just started catching up with.

I'll buy the book - and might try to see Jeff Sparrow at some upcoming talks he has organised next week.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/01/how-a-disastrous-change-in-perspective-disempowered-the-left-and-let-the-right-rise

 

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mack

mack

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58 minutes ago, wendybr said:

Seriously - the article above is worth reading. ;)

Trying to distil the rise of Trump to "progressives made fun of idiots who voted for Bush" is ridiculous. Dubya was an idiot. The idiot buffoon lead by Fox News cheerleaders runs headlong into a disastrous never ending war against terror (which includes Iraq despite it not being involved with 9/11, and eventually lead to the creation of ISIS), to go with their disastrous never ending war on drugs. They spend trillions on war and trickle down economics. The economic collapse of the GFC that was bought on by neoconservative banking policy results in Obama being elected. 8 years of Fox News attacks on Obama is spent priming white lower class voters to vote against their interests and they get Trump.

Who many economists predict will send the US into a recession by 2020, and who has started a trade war that is going to hurt the very people who voted for him.

Is it 'smug' to point out that Trump and his cabal of ex-Wall Street mates will not "make america great again" to the people who voted for him? They aren't going to bring back jobs to the US. They aren't going to give them health care. They aren't going to reduce the cost of living. They aren't going to introduce re-training or infrastructure programs. Idiocracy isn't an example of a nation of idiots voting in other idiots, it's a story about how people can't always recognise the mistakes they might be making, and that occasionally even the president of the united states has to listen to the smartest person in the room.

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wendybr

wendybr

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I don't disagree with anything you say there...except that your first sentence is too dismissive of the premise that the arrogance of the Left (and I say that as a lifelong leftie, and could never be anything else) has been blind to the fact that a sizeable chunk of the people who were born into left leaning families have been heading in the opposite direction...

And incrementally, "progressives" making fun of "deplorables" who haven't come along with progressive causes has hastened this process. 

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wendybr

wendybr

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2 hours ago, wendybr said:
5 minutes ago, mack said:

There are deplorables out there marching with neo-nazis and murdering people, maybe the Trump supporters who prop up Republicans and the alt-right deplorables, voting for billionaire tax cuts & the destruction of public health care shouldn't be treated with kid gloves?

 

Well ...there are truly deplorable people with truly deplorable ideas - for sure.

And then there are others who aren't comfortable with the speed of change that's occurred over recent decades....or who have other grievances.

Didn't go down too well for Clinton when she lumped them all in that basket together, did it? And the world is suffering the consequences now - and for another two years (hopefully not for any longer)

I don't know how to bridge the ever-widening gap between the two camps.

I don't know if it's possible to even hope the animosity between the two camps can be lessened.

But writing that whole sector of society off is inviting their further alienation from the Left.

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mack

mack

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Clinton was an awful candidate who probably would have lost to any Republican candidate except maybe Jeb Bush. Owned by Wall Street, corporate democrat who fakes being a progressive. The solution to Trump isn't the Democratic party becoming more like Trump, it's a re-introduction of economic socially progressive "new deal" policy, and a repudiation of neo-conservative ideals that oppress the working class.

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wendybr

wendybr

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Clinton was an awful candidate who probably would have lost to any Republican candidate except maybe Jeb Bush. Owned by Wall Street, corporate democrat who fakes being a progressive.

Yes.

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The solution to Trump isn't the Democratic party becoming more like Trump, it's a re-introduction of economic socially progressive "new deal" policy, and a repudiation of neo-conservative ideals that oppress the working class

I have no idea who the Dems will turn to...but you'd have to hope that out of a few hundred million people, there will be someone who can offer a way forward through the mess they're in. :unsure:

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thefairy

thefairy

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1 hour ago, mack said:

Clinton was an awful candidate who probably would have lost to any Republican candidate except maybe Jeb Bush. Owned by Wall Street, corporate democrat who fakes being a progressive. The solution to Trump isn't the Democratic party becoming more like Trump, it's a re-introduction of economic socially progressive "new deal" policy, and a repudiation of neo-conservative ideals that oppress the working class.

yeah the dems should have a mao or stalin type of candidate. 

my dream is if they go full pol pot. more progressive the better. double downing is the best way to win.

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wendybr

wendybr

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12 hours ago, wendybr said:

And this is a podcast where the author discusses with uber lefty Phillip Adams the issue of "smug politics"

^^^LOVE IT!  The Python scene I mean!  :grouphug:

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"a re-introduction of economic socially progressive "new deal" policy, and a repudiation of neo-conservative ideals that oppress the working class. "

As for the interview with Phillip Adams..,,,which is definitely worth listening to  - Jeff Sparrow does have suggestions to make at the end about how to re-engage working class people with the Left again.

Bit flimsy perhaps...but something.

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Cynth

Cynth

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18 hours ago, luisenrique said:

Not exactly politics but I think this fits in here...it's an excerpt from Yuval Noah Hariri's latest book (which I'm yet to read)...his first two Sapiens and Homo Deus are excellent though.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/sep/14/yuval-noah-harari-the-new-threat-to-liberal-democracy?CMP=share_btn_fb

 

Wow that’s a really interesting take on Liberalism. 

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wendybr

wendybr

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Following from the conversation Carns and I have been having on the Aust Not Politics Thread....

I've posted this before.

This guy is someone - I guess a bit older than you guys (late 30s)...who is speaking out for issues he believes in...as a satirist.

I love what he does.

 

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Legionista

Legionista

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On 02/10/2018 at 11:29 PM, luisenrique said:

Not exactly politics but I think this fits in here...it's an excerpt from Yuval Noah Hariri's latest book (which I'm yet to read)...his first two Sapiens and Homo Deus are excellent though.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/sep/14/yuval-noah-harari-the-new-threat-to-liberal-democracy?CMP=share_btn_fb

 

I have read both. 

Thought provoking. 

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