Armageddon Thread

[Stokz]

Another one from Greg Dore:

Precautionary principle used to justify unproven Covid interventions: outdoor masks, outdoor recreation restrictions, curfews, etc. Why can’t we just use LOGIC—unlikely to have much impact—& precautionary principle of their effect on health & wellbeing.

[sonar]

11 minutes ago, Stokz said:

This vax wasn’t going to be mandatory either, but here we are…. 

Vax passports were conspiracy theory talk last year but here we are.

 

Vaccines are NOT mandatory. You can chose not to get it.....FACT. Booster jabs are NOT mandatory.....FACT.

IF they are made mandatory then you can have a conversation about it  or at the next election you vote the chunts out.

I'm getting both jabs.....had one already.

What others do is up to them and whatever they believe.

Edited September 4, 2021 by sonar

[wendybr]

2 hours ago, Unlimited said:

It doesn't help that this dumbass government loudly promoted this indemnity scheme because now it makes people like yourself second guess the thing.

Ha.... it stops the issue being discussed.

A workmate of one of my sons had his wife hospitalised shortly after her vaccine.

He posted to his Facebook account - not campaigning, just as a way of letting friends know that she was in hospital - and his account was deleted.

Facebook groups sharing their stories of reactions have been deleted.

The last thing the govt wants is to have people with vaccine injuries having to fight for compensation, and going to the media with their stories etc ....although TBH the media has dropped any reporting of clotting etc.

I can't see that, with the volume of AZ being pumped out,  there wouldn't have been more of those issues happening, but they are not being reported.

[wendybr]

1 minute ago, sonar said:

Vaccines are NOT mandatory. You can chose not to get it.....FACT. Booster jabs are NOT mandatory.....FACT.

IF they are made mandatory then you can have a conversation about it  or at the next election you vote the chunts out.

Sorry?

As of, I think,  the 8th of November, teachers  won't have a job if they haven't been fully vaccinated, which I won't be.

It's happening by stealth, rather than by government mandate, Sonar.

It's happening through the workplace for some, and through deprivation of what they love (no going to the pub, a sporting event or a cafe etc without the jab).

[Cynth]

1 minute ago, Stokz said:

Another one from Greg Dore:

Precautionary principle used to justify unproven Covid interventions: outdoor masks, outdoor recreation restrictions, curfews, etc. Why can’t we just use LOGIC—unlikely to have much impact—& precautionary principle of their effect on health & wellbeing.

We can argue the approach till the cows come home. The powers that be have access to all this data. They make decisions that balance risk, economy, mental health and politics. Where they fall in their decision making varies to some extent but not massively really ( relatively). We can argue the nuance of their decision making but in the end most countries around the world have used a combination of these strategies to manage the virus. The weighting’s of the strategies differ at different times but really I don’t think there’s some mysterious agenda in the NSW government that makes them make the decisions their are making. Sometimes they are gonna make **** decisions and sometimes they are gonna make mercenary ones and sometimes they are going to make humane ones. But it’s complicated and quite frankly looking at the differing approaches of the state governments regardless of their side of politics, you are damned if you do and you are damned if you don’t. 
 

Im not defending the government, I’m just pointing out that the whole world is bumbling through and no-one has the magic answer to this. 

[Stokz]

2 minutes ago, sonar said:

Vaccines are NOT mandatory. You can chose not to get it.....FACT. Booster jabs are NOT mandatory.....FACT.

IF they are made mandatory then you can have a conversation about it  or at the next election you vote the chunts out.

Lol yeah not mandatory, but you can’t come to work on Monday if your not jabbed. 
 

I don’t think the mandatory boosters will bother you anyway, you’ll get one as soon as they are announced by the looks of it.

[sonar]

Just now, wendybr said:

Sorry?

As of, I think,  the 8th of November, teachers  won't have a job if they haven't been fully vaccinated, which I won't be.

It's happening by stealth, rather than by government mandate, Sonar.

It's happening through the workplace for some, and through deprivation of what they love (no going to the pub, a sporting event or a cafe etc without the jab).

This is going to sound callous but tbh I couldn't give a flying ****. I'm going to get vaccinated so I can have some sort of life again. What others do is their choice.

[sonar]

1 minute ago, Stokz said:

Lol yeah not mandatory, but you can’t come to work on Monday if your not jabbed. 
 

I don’t think the mandatory boosters will bother you anyway, you’ll get one as soon as they are announced by the looks of it.

Absolutely. I mean no malice to you personally but what YOU do is YOUR choice. Simple as that. 

[Cynth]

2 minutes ago, Stokz said:

Lol yeah not mandatory, but you can’t come to work on Monday if your not jabbed. 
 

I don’t think the mandatory boosters will bother you anyway, you’ll get one as soon as they are announced by the looks of it.

You make that comment about boosters like it’s a criticism?? 

[wendybr]

Just now, sonar said:

This is going to sound callous but tbh I couldn't give a flying ****. I'm going to get vaccinated so I can have some sort of life again. What others do is their choice.

Fair enough Sonar. I'm sure that that is what most people getting vaccinated want.

I know you have an elderly father whose safety you want to protect, in addition to wanting to get back to normal life - as we all do.

 

 

[sonar]

Just now, Cynth said:

You make that comment about boosters like it’s a criticism?? 

It's how it seemed to me as well but at the end of the day it's another persons point of view which they are entitled to have and I meant what I said I hold no malice. 

[wendybr]

2 minutes ago, sonar said:

Absolutely. I mean no malice to you personally but what YOU do is YOUR choice. Simple as that. 

But Stokz, like many others, will not have anything like an unfettered choice - if it's get a jab or keep your job.

[Stokz]

You probably couldn’t give a flying **** either if someone had vaccine reaction either.

Every booster you take is another chance for a vaccine adverse reaction.

Fit and healthy people in their 20s - 40s acting like you don’t have a immune system FFS. 

[Cynth]

2 minutes ago, Stokz said:

You probably couldn’t give a flying **** either if someone had vaccine reaction either.

Every booster you take is another chance for a vaccine adverse reaction.

Fit and healthy people in their 20s - 40s acting like you don’t have a immune system FFS. 

Curious question: Do you know anyone who has had Covid? And do you know anyone who has had a very serious adverse reaction to the Covid vaccine? 

[sonar]

1 minute ago, Stokz said:

You probably couldn’t give a flying **** either if someone had vaccine reaction either.

Every booster you take is another chance for a vaccine adverse reaction.

Fit and healthy people in their 20s - 40s acting like you don’t have a immune system FFS. 

This is where you are wrong. I don't want anyone to die or get sick. I am not an uncaring or without empathy for others. I am the primary carer for my 92 year old Dad. I get covid he he dies. Simple as that. If taking a vaccines mitigates us ending up in an IC Unit I'll take a jab. I'd rather the ICU's be taken up for people who actually need it. 

Just because you have reached a point of view doesn't mean I can't reach a different point of view either. 

[wendybr]

 

12 minutes ago, Cynth said:

You make that comment about boosters like it’s a criticism?? 

Well we aren't the only ones squabbling about boosters...

https://www.businessinsider.com/2-top-fda-officials-resigned-biden-booster-plan-reports-2021-9

[lloydy136]

56 minutes ago, theseeker said:

Living in 3rd world conditions ? Every year in excess of 30 BILLION is spent on an indigenous population of around 600,000. Third world would be where there is no social security , do your best , and that is estimated at 4 billion people around the world. In Australia with social security and the extensive charities there is no reason why anyone in Australia needs to go to bed on an empty stomach.  

$30 billion awesome!!!!! Let's move there after the pandemic it must be paradise. You in?

we have spunked more than that on jobkeeper to businesses already making a profit.

Seriously though you can quote the spending figures all day but the life expectancy and health outcomes are comparable to 3rd world countries - most aren't aware of this, covid has highlighted the difference, that was my point.

 

[wendybr]

8 minutes ago, Cynth said:

Curious question: Do you know anyone who has had Covid? And do you know anyone who has had a very serious adverse reaction to the Covid vaccine? 

Looking forward to Stokes' reply...because he has posted about people he knows who have had it.

Re adverse reactions...

My other son has a mate whose grandfather had pretty bad epilepsy until he had that operation that severs the two brain hemispheres (same as Wally Lewis).

His grandfather, after the surgery, had experienced no seizures for a considerable period of time.

The day after his first jab, he started having seizures. So...yes he had an underlying condition, but it appeared he had had the condition very well managed.

He was hospitalised with it  - and died after a few days.

Worse that that - to the family's disgust and without them being told, the grandfather was listed as a Covid death - I think on the same day that young woman died.

Death certificate lists Covid (contracted in hospital) - the famiy sees it as a vaccine related death.

 

There are very serious injuries...the two I've heard of were second hand, but from close to the families of these  people.

[Carns]

20 minutes ago, Stokz said:

Every booster you take is another chance for a vaccine adverse reaction.

Not sure on the stats re: reactions to second vax (or booster vax) but you're of a higher risk for any adverse reaction (as in the serious, life threatening stuff) with your first vax.

It's why with all the AZ blood clotting fear mongering they were telling those who'd already had a AZ vax they were unlikely to have something seriously bad happen the second time.

[marron]

14 minutes ago, Carns said:

Not sure on the stats re: reactions to second vax (or booster vax) but you're of a higher risk for any adverse reaction (as in the serious, life threatening stuff) with your first vax.

It's why with all the AZ blood clotting fear mongering they were telling those who'd already had a AZ vax they were unlikely to have something seriously bad happen the second time.

And, I'll use this to answer Stokz' earlier question of me, about if how you are vaxed why would you care about the unvaxed kids.

If you can be worried about each time you are getting a booster increasing your chances that this time you'll get an adverse reaction (even aside from what Carns points out), then you might be able to see that every unvaxxed kid, shedding more rona virus, increased the risk that despite my vax status, this one will be the one that either effects me, or effects someone I know when I shed it to them. Yes the risks are lower because I'm vaxxed, but they are going to be a damn sight higher if there's snotty kids with poor hygeine (and very little government support to keep my workplace actually safe) running around everywhere who all have a much larger chance of having the virus.

I haven't seen my parents in almost 2 years, and more to the point, my kids haven't seen them in that long. I'd like to be able to see them without those increased risks. I'd also like to think that should my dad continue to have clotting and heart issues (AZ all fine btw), that our health service will be able to attend to him, and won't leave him to die becasue, essentially, some edgelords with a degree from 4chan helped to globalise vaccine hesitancy with conspriacy-centred nonsense.

I've got to say as well, I'd like to know the difference between being afraid of contracting a virus (and more to the point, potentially spreading to others who for whatever reason might be more likely to suffer from it) and being afraid of getting a vaccine.

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by marron

[theseeker]

21 minutes ago, lloydy136 said:

$30 billion awesome!!!!! Let's move there after the pandemic it must be paradise. You in?

we have spunked more than that on jobkeeper to businesses already making a profit.

Seriously though you can quote the spending figures all day but the life expectancy and health outcomes are comparable to 3rd world countries - most aren't aware of this, covid has highlighted the difference, that was my point.

 

If I accept you 3rd world scenario , which I don't , what's your panacea solution to this problem.

Increase the 30 billion to 3 trillion ? Or as suggested in Mr. Midnight Oil's song , Beds are Burning -

" Let's give it back " 

[Stokz]

29 minutes ago, Cynth said:

Curious question: Do you know anyone who has had Covid? And do you know anyone who has had a very serious adverse reaction to the Covid vaccine? 

Yea 2 people to be honest, close family friend - women in her 20s, and a mate - early 30s. Both said they felt like **** for about 4-5 days. But after that was back to normal.

I don’t know anyone that had adverse reaction - but I don’t know that many people that had the vaccine either.
 

My immediate family, parents 60s, sister, sisters family, my wife’s family (brother, sister, parents in 60s) all haven’t had the vax yet. 

[Carns]

5 minutes ago, marron said:

I haven't seen my parents in almost 2 years, and more to the point, my kids haven't seen them in that long. I'd like to be able to see them without those increased risks.

Were your folks in PNG? Or elsewhere? Did they have to wait till they came back to Oz to get a vax or were able to get it whilst still OS?

[marron]

Fiji, they got AZ (the indian one) over there, double dosed just before they came back into this mess.

They are still waiting to see wtf the gov will do in terms of recognising their vax, too, as it happens, no-one seems to want to know.

[Carns]

54 minutes ago, wendybr said:

As of, I think,  the 8th of November, teachers  won't have a job if they haven't been fully vaccinated, which I won't be.

Was trying to find what the outcome of not being vaxxed or only having one would be. The press release from the Gov said they would announce the implications of not being vaxxed/were working out the details. Have teachers been provided with any more info yet?

The reason I ask is I know at my son's daycare the teachers either have to get the vax and/or get tested on a weekly basis for Covid. Could it be similar for teachers in schools (at least those with one vax) where they have to be tested regularly?

[marron]

No details yet.

Wendy is that because you aren't going to get vaxxed or because of timing or something else? Apologies if that's too personal, no need to answer if you'd rather not!

[wendybr]

29 minutes ago, Carns said:

Not sure on the stats re: reactions to second vax (or booster vax) but you're of a higher risk for any adverse reaction (as in the serious, life threatening stuff) with your first vax.

It's why with all the AZ blood clotting fear mongering they were telling those who'd already had a AZ vax they were unlikely to have something seriously bad happen the second time.

Not entirely.

It's the first vax for AZ and the second dose for Pfizer that are more likely to bring about the adverse reaction.

[Stokz]

29 minutes ago, Carns said:

Not sure on the stats re: reactions to second vax (or booster vax) but you're of a higher risk for any adverse reaction (as in the serious, life threatening stuff) with your first vax.

It's why with all the AZ blood clotting fear mongering they were telling those who'd already had a AZ vax they were unlikely to have something seriously bad happen the second time.

I’ve read all sorts of stories about 2nd jabs too - Pfizer too. Our voices matter on FB page is scary reading. 

[sonar]

There seems to be a great variance in the reactions to vaccines. For me it was I felt really sick for four or five days then ok. My Dad,brothers and sisters.....nothing. 

I'll get the second jab in two weeks and reading anecdotally the reaction shouldn't be as bad as the first.

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by sonar

[Unlimited]

1 hour ago, wendybr said:

Ha.... it stops the issue being discussed.

A workmate of one of my sons had his wife hospitalised shortly after her vaccine.

He posted to his Facebook account - not campaigning, just as a way of letting friends know that she was in hospital - and his account was deleted.

Facebook groups sharing their stories of reactions have been deleted.

The last thing the govt wants is to have people with vaccine injuries having to fight for compensation, and going to the media with their stories etc ....although TBH the media has dropped any reporting of clotting etc.

I can't see that, with the volume of AZ being pumped out,  there wouldn't have been more of those issues happening, but they are not being reported.

Facebook being overly militant about things doesn't surprise me. The Chaser got deleted for a while for posting "fake news" about how Matt Canavan wants an all white Wiggles line-up.

On the bolded point, I disagree. It was heavily publicised when that one person died in New Zealand due to Pfizer. Perhaps the reason there is no reporting on it is because nothing has happened?

The statistics are plain. The chance of you dying from COVID all else equal is around 1-in-1,000. The chance of you dying from a vaccine is around 1-in-1,000,000. So it does not surprise me at all that the leading headlines today are "omg so many cases in Sydney and 4 dead".

You can read into that and say "yes there is a media conspiracy to block out negative vaccine headlines" or look at the plain numbers and realise that the more likely reason is the fact that the event hasn't happened in a while.