Damien de Bohun Misses Mark With Active Support Response

[westofcentre]

 

although, it would be good to get some mainstream media on our side in some way or form

 

foxsports and SBS should be protecting their game and voicing their concerns about all this

 

^All of this plus more, but I can't help but feel ..

 

That they must have some cash inflow with New Limited (aside from Fox)

 

I was at Parramatta stadium on the weekend to get psyched for the season start and there was some interview with Channel Seven reporter "Chris Bath" on the oval and she was praising the Wanderers and saying how they're big fans or some s*** like that. I didn't exactly see New Limited be on board with the Wanderers Supporters until the end of the season.

 

Will be lodging another massive complaint to the FFA over there handling of this. The FFA are weird, they do something great and amazing for the game one week and then the next week they slip up again...

 

 

Rupert Murdoch was at the launch of the Foxtel Football development program early last year. It was a symbolic show to his Australian papers and their editors how they should now "consider" treating football in this country. They may not love it, but they need not to openly hate it. 

[bombagol]

This whole thing sucks. We should be happy, looking forward to and talking about our first game in a few days, not about this cr@p the FFA served up.

[stavup]

Damien de Bohun today exposed yet again the FFA's inability to understand Active Support in the A-League.

 

De Bohun released an opinion piece on the Football Federation Website titled "Active fans the stars of the show". His piece fails to respond to any of the criticism and concerns of those supporters across the league who view the FFA as having given up on active support.

 

I could write another large article, but instead I will list of the issues I believe De Bohun and the FFA has failed to respond to.

• The shattered trust between certain clubs, the FFA & active supporters that developed under the leadership of De Bohun.
• No apology for De Bohun's failure to ensure that Melbourne Victory secured their stadium before the publishing of the A-League draw, which lead to the rescheduling of what was going to be a marquee fixture both on and off the pitch onto a Tuesday.
• No mention of how the FFA refused to discuss A-League active support issues while pushing those in Terrace Australis to create the same atmosphere they were attempting to destroy at A-League level.
• Melbourne Victory & the FFA forcing out the North Terrace, and replacing them with a club approved cheer squad.
• The hypocrisy of the FFA using active support in advertisements as they allowed MFVC to destroy active support at Melbourne Victory.
• What the FFA will do to defend supporters against systemic bias in the media or police.
• If the FFA will go forward with a promise to correct the record when our sport or supporters are attacked in the media by reminding the mainstream media of events of far greater severity across other sports and cultural events.
• The FFA pushing to have made public a complete set of information relating to arrests, evictions and serious incidents across all sports in Australia, so that the media, Police & public have the full truth about anti-social behaviour in sport, and in the A-League.
• Following that, the FFA attempting to reduce the overly draconian levels of Police force being arrayed against active support in the A-League, up to and including paramilitary police units wearing tactical combat gear, standing hand on gun in the aisles of A-League matches.
• Correcting the behaviour of security and police to stop situations where supporters are threatened with bans, evictions and arrests for supporting their team in a manner that the FFA repeatedly use in their advertisements for the A-League.
• No mention of any FFA campaign to improve the training of security to enable security to better understand the differences in an active support crowd as opposed to the nightclubs & pubs that most security guards spend their working lives controlling.
• Removing or justifying the presence of Hatamoto, a shadowy anti-terrorist organisation, from their involvement in football. Nor is there any apology for privacy intruding dossiers being built against people who have done nothing wrong, and disseminated to those at the FFA and other private companies.
• No justification or clarification on the FFA's stance for naming sub-groups in active support groups as 'rogue' or 'splinter' sub-groups, with an inherent negative bias toward anyone who happen to be a part of what would be seen as a 'splinter' group. Even if those groups form out of completely legitimate differences such as geographic location or age.
• Discussion of the major safety issues that come from caging in active supporters, and forcing them into dystopian scanners every single time they leave active support areas.
• Why if only a "very small portion" of people are involved in anti-social behaviour, does the FFA introduce and allow such incredibly draconian anti-supporter measures, such as totally banning supporter equipment like flags, tifos, banners, and going to the extent of trying to ban sub-groups?
• FFA improving their pre-match 'registration system' that has resulted in the FFA approving displays and tifos, only to ban them after groups have gone to great expense of time, energy and money to create them.
• The FFA have not discussed what they are doing to self-educate on best practice active support controls from countries like Germany or England.
• Any concrete information about how long these measures are to be in place for, and what exactly constitutes 'success' in the eyes of the FFA.
• De Bohun says nothing about his intent to use these draconian measures against other supporter groups in the A-League.
• There is no discussion on reform of the A-League banning system to include elements of natural justice such as a right of an accused to face their accuser, to see all the evidence arrayed before them, to make their case, independent arbiters, punishments that fit the offence and a system of appeal.

Damien de Bohun can argue all he wants against anti-social behaviour. Appropriate, non excessive attempts to curb minor levels of anti-social behaviour in the A-League are not what I believe show that the FFA are trying to destroy active support. As I've said in the past, I've not seen any anti-social behaviour that justifies this level of attack on active supporters. I am tired of being treated like a criminal by the Police & media, and disgusted with the FFA's complicity in allowing biased, incorrect labels like 'hooligan', 'splinter' and 'rioter' to spoken in reference to football supporters without any defence from the FFA.

 

Damien de Bohun continues to stonewall and avoid discussion on these important topics and has done so for months. Of the problems listed there are many that have been in the FFA's hands for weeks, months or even years. His inability to face the real issues is a symptom of a failure of leadership at the FFA.

 

Instead of looking forward to taking part in a new A-League season, I'm looking over my shoulder in case a policeman is about to indiscriminately blast the crowd with capsicum spray (or their gun accidentally fires while they are in a crowd), or an undercover Hatamoto agent is about to recommend me for a 5 year ban on false evidence, or to be on the lookout for a crowd crush if the FFA implement unsafe crowd control elements at any of the stadiums I will be attending this year.

 

Damien de Bohun writes that he is 'proud' of active support.

 

He and the FFA need to start acting like it.

 

To do otherwise is to risk destroying the active support that claim to be proud of, and that they use to advertise the league with.

 

To those who read my previous piece "FFA Attempting To Destroy Active Support", I would like to thank you all, no matter what team your follow or your affiliation (or non-affiliation) with active support. People across the nation took this issue to heart, with multiple articles in the media being written and large amounts of discussion taking place on social media. This website in particular gained the highest ever single day viewing statistics, and that article became the 4th highest viewed article in only a day.

 

Continue to discuss and press the FFA on these important issues.

 

Football without fans is nothing.

 

Click here to view the article

 

It is a good thing we have people like you (and countless others) who do an enormous amount of work to ensure the longevity of active support in the country..and im not part of the RBB, however I feel the RBB is a massive part of me..Thank you.. 

[Araucano]

I agree stavup, i'm a Bay 25er and the 20 mins last season that the boys took a stand for were the saddest time of the season apart from the GF loss

 

Active support is part of what makes this club what it is, without it, it would make it a ESFC home game. And no one would want that.

[Guest mickisnot]

 

Rupert Murdoch was at the launch of the Foxtel Football development program early last year. It was a symbolic show to his Australian papers and their editors how they should now "consider" treating football in this country. They may not love it, but they need not to openly hate it. 

 

 

I didn't know that, that's really good to hear, I hope this creates an easier season on our fans!

 

I will never forget last season when we won the premiership up in Newcastle. We did the march in before the game, then celebrated outside and everybody was full of joy, they were amazingly ecstatic and the whole thing was something I'll hold dear. I stayed the night in Newcastle, and in the morning when I woke up and read the Newcastle paers, they were happy to have us and all the Newcastle fans were amazed about how much passion we bring to the games (almost brought a tear to the eye)

 

Went down to Sydney later in the day, read the Daily Telegraph, front line news was about how one guy got into a drunken brawl at 3 am in the morning...

 

[redandblack]

 

 

without active fans the the rest of the crowd will be a no show and this means loss of revenue.

yeah, no.

 

but i admire the point you are trying to make.

Actually, I think you'll find out all the clubs, we would probably be in the riskiest position in terms of losing members if the community link is lost. This would include our active support.

 

Our club knows the importance of this.

 

MVFC are in a different case where they've had some time to establish a members base.

 

Financially speaking, if the FFA can get the right deals in place in the longer term then they won't care about the fans. Look at nrl and afl as a reminder. If you can remember it around tge 80s and 90s you'll understand.

 

This is under the current guidance of course, and I can only hope that the right culture is instilled before it's too late.

[wanderersfanatic]

Just got a member email from the Wanderers. They are saying there will be an 'extensive' meeting to discuss the topics we have brought up. This is a totally separate meeting from the one that will be held tomorrow.

 

 

An extensive NRMA Insurance Western Sydney Wanderers FC Members Forum will be held with Wanderers, FFA and other representatives next Thursday night, 17 October commencing at7.30pm, venue to be confirmed.

The key topics for discussion will be:

• General club update
• Updates from last forum topics
• Match day update
• Match day discussion and feedback
• Active Supporter update
• Active Supporter discussion and feedback
• Membership discussion and feedback
• Other current Hyundai A-League topics

[JamCal]

Then maybe people going tomorrow night should hold off on their active support queries until all the other questions are answered?

[mack]

They'd like that, wouldn't they. Nek minnit second forum cancelled.

[JamCal]

Pa-pa-paranoia Shaun Mielkamp is comin for ya.

 

 

 

(Jokes he does good work.)

[redandblack]

Then maybe people going tomorrow night should hold off on their active support queries until all the other questions are answered?

As I mentioned in the respective thread, I think there are important issues that need to be discussed and I hope that they are done so with nothing less than complete professionalism and integrity.

 

Too many failed attempts at this in the past, and it only discredits us and makes us look foolish.

[wanderersfanatic]

They'd like that, wouldn't they. Nek minnit second forum cancelled.

 

You may be right!!

 

Wanderers just sent another members email that has the exact same content around 7min later, however, they removed the members forum section. 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2013 by wanderersfanatic

[stavup]

 

 

Rupert Murdoch was at the launch of the Foxtel Football development program early last year. It was a symbolic show to his Australian papers and their editors how they should now "consider" treating football in this country. They may not love it, but they need not to openly hate it. 

 

 

I didn't know that, that's really good to hear, I hope this creates an easier season on our fans!

 

I will never forget last season when we won the premiership up in Newcastle. We did the march in before the game, then celebrated outside and everybody was full of joy, they were amazingly ecstatic and the whole thing was something I'll hold dear. I stayed the night in Newcastle, and in the morning when I woke up and read the Newcastle paers, they were happy to have us and all the Newcastle fans were amazed about how much passion we bring to the games (almost brought a tear to the eye)

 

Went down to Sydney later in the day, read the Daily Telegraph, front line news was about how one guy got into a drunken brawl at 3 am in the morning...

 

 

I remember that..and it pissed me at the time. we sat at a coffee having breakfast with the family the next morning in Newcastle, and so many people came up and said how much that loved the atmosphere that we bring to the game..so exciting they said..

[Davo]

De Bohun's response is pretty insulting.

 

On social media over the past day I’ve read some comments suggesting that FFA wants to destroy active support in the Hyundai A-League. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

I think there'd be a lot of Victory fans who would disagree with that.

FFA has encouraged active support by working closely with clubs, venues and fans over active supporter areas. The banners, flags, drums and general theatre of active supporter areas are a result of ongoing collaboration between FFA, our clubs and fans.

 

The only feedback I've heard from members of the RBB who meet with the FFA is that they don't work closely at all. The meetings are entirely one way, with the FFA dictating terms and no discussion will be entered into. To say they work closely with fans is a lie. Also you can't ban things like banners and flags then take the credit when you lift the ban in one small section of the ground. It's like stealing somebody's car then expecting praise because you let them borrow it occasionally.

We are so proud of the contribution of fans we’ve made you the stars of our A-League marketing campaign. Active fans are the stars of the show.

 

So everything shown in the marketing campaign is condoned and encouraged by the FFA? Like flags, drums, group banners on the front of bays, smokies?

The negative comments followed a joint statement by Victoria Police, Melbourne Victory, Melbourne Heart and FFA about the expected standards of behaviour at matches in Victoria.

 

No, the negative comments followed the ridiculous measures the FFA are putting in place for Melbourne A-League games. Fans know what the expected standards of behaviour are at a football game.

It’s pretty simple. Anti-social behaviour that affects the enjoyment of other fans is not acceptable.

 

I'd consider transferring a few hundred Northern Terrace memberships to GA without asking, then surrounding the remaining members with tarps to segregate them from the rest of the fans 'anti-social behaviour that affects the enjoyment of other fans'.

We will not tolerate flares, damage to public property and violence. Not FFA, not the clubs, not the stadium managements and not the Police. Nor should any fans accept such behaviour. While it may be a very small portion of people who engage in this type of behaviour, the impact they have on the perception of our game is significant.

 

The measures they are proposing aren't appropriate to stop these issues. Damaged seats? Bring in safe standing areas. Violence? Accept the fact that football fans see the least violence of all the major sporting codes in the country and promote that fact.

We all want to experience the unique atmosphere created by passionate fans. We want active support to grow. We want to see fans enjoying themselves in a safe environment.

 

Reducing the number of active supporters in a ground and removing their banners will diminish the unique atmosphere. Reducing the number of active supporters won't make active support grow. As for safety, the only danger I've ever been in at an A-League game was the crowd crush at the Grand Final.

If any individual can’t contribute to that without breaking the law, they aren’t welcome at A-League matches. Collectively, we will identify and remove trouble makers so that the overwhelming majority of supporters – active or not – can enjoy their match day experience in a safe environment.

 

If they can't find the Heart fan who walked half a lap of the ground to give a Wanderer a dog shot, even though he was caught on dozens of cameras, I have very little faith in their ability to accurately find and punish the few troublemakers there are at A-League games.

Across the A-League there are many encouraging developments between FFA, clubs and active supporter groups. The aim is to improve the fan experience and help the A-League grow.

 

The Northern Terrace and Terrace Australis are pretty much gone. Maybe the FFA consider that encouraging?

 

But we all live in a lawful society and being inside a stadium doesn’t mean anything is different.

 

And when I walk around on the street I expect to not be treated like a criminal by police, being inside a stadium doesn't mean anything is different.

[toffeewanderer]

Guys, skimmed through this, and hate to name drop. But following the socceroos over the years and going on away trips abroad, Pablo writes the articles for match reviews for the world game already and is on these forums. He may be the go to man if you are looking for someone to help get your message out. Totally up to him if he wants to help contribute, but definately worth asking him.

Edited October 9, 2013 by toffeewanderer

[Ian]

Last season RBB had a limit of 10 items/oversized flags allowed in the stadium, more that half of that was used to get the bands instruments in with a few oversized flags and banners. FFA aren't exactly making things easy for active support.

[dmixtaaa]

 

 

 

Rupert Murdoch was at the launch of the Foxtel Football development program early last year. It was a symbolic show to his Australian papers and their editors how they should now "consider" treating football in this country. They may not love it, but they need not to openly hate it. 

 

 

I didn't know that, that's really good to hear, I hope this creates an easier season on our fans!

 

I will never forget last season when we won the premiership up in Newcastle. We did the march in before the game, then celebrated outside and everybody was full of joy, they were amazingly ecstatic and the whole thing was something I'll hold dear. I stayed the night in Newcastle, and in the morning when I woke up and read the Newcastle paers, they were happy to have us and all the Newcastle fans were amazed about how much passion we bring to the games (almost brought a tear to the eye)

 

Went down to Sydney later in the day, read the Daily Telegraph, front line news was about how one guy got into a drunken brawl at 3 am in the morning...

 

 

I remember that..and it pissed me at the time. we sat at a coffee having breakfast with the family the next morning in Newcastle, and so many people came up and said how much that loved the atmosphere that we bring to the game..so exciting they said..

 

Yes we had a similar experience my family group which consisted of 4 adults and 4 kids ranging in age from 2-17yo. We were having a pizza lunch at Wharf Brewery the next day with people randomly coming up to us and saying how great an experience they had had the night before.

[marron]

De Bohun's response is pretty insulting.

 

On social media over the past day I’ve read some comments suggesting that FFA wants to destroy active support in the Hyundai A-League. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

I think there'd be a lot of Victory fans who would disagree with that.

 

FFA has encouraged active support by working closely with clubs, venues and fans over active supporter areas. The banners, flags, drums and general theatre of active supporter areas are a result of ongoing collaboration between FFA, our clubs and fans.

 

The only feedback I've heard from members of the RBB who meet with the FFA is that they don't work closely at all. The meetings are entirely one way, with the FFA dictating terms and no discussion will be entered into. To say they work closely with fans is a lie. Also you can't ban things like banners and flags then take the credit when you lift the ban in one small section of the ground. It's like stealing somebody's car then expecting praise because you let them borrow it occasionally.

We are so proud of the contribution of fans we’ve made you the stars of our A-League marketing campaign. Active fans are the stars of the show.

 

So everything shown in the marketing campaign is condoned and encouraged by the FFA? Like flags, drums, group banners on the front of bays, smokies?

 

The negative comments followed a joint statement by Victoria Police, Melbourne Victory, Melbourne Heart and FFA about the expected standards of behaviour at matches in Victoria.

 

No, the negative comments followed the ridiculous measures the FFA are putting in place for Melbourne A-League games. Fans know what the expected standards of behaviour are at a football game.

 

It’s pretty simple. Anti-social behaviour that affects the enjoyment of other fans is not acceptable.

 

I'd consider transferring a few hundred Northern Terrace memberships to GA without asking, then surrounding the remaining members with tarps to segregate them from the rest of the fans 'anti-social behaviour that affects the enjoyment of other fans'.

 

We will not tolerate flares, damage to public property and violence. Not FFA, not the clubs, not the stadium managements and not the Police. Nor should any fans accept such behaviour. While it may be a very small portion of people who engage in this type of behaviour, the impact they have on the perception of our game is significant.

 

The measures they are proposing aren't appropriate to stop these issues. Damaged seats? Bring in safe standing areas. Violence? Accept the fact that football fans see the least violence of all the major sporting codes in the country and promote that fact.

 

We all want to experience the unique atmosphere created by passionate fans. We want active support to grow. We want to see fans enjoying themselves in a safe environment.

 

Reducing the number of active supporters in a ground and removing their banners will diminish the unique atmosphere. Reducing the number of active supporters won't make active support grow. As for safety, the only danger I've ever been in at an A-League game was the crowd crush at the Grand Final.

 

If any individual can’t contribute to that without breaking the law, they aren’t welcome at A-League matches. Collectively, we will identify and remove trouble makers so that the overwhelming majority of supporters – active or not – can enjoy their match day experience in a safe environment.

 

If they can't find the Heart fan who walked half a lap of the ground to give a Wanderer a dog shot, even though he was caught on dozens of cameras, I have very little faith in their ability to accurately find and punish the few troublemakers there are at A-League games.

 

Across the A-League there are many encouraging developments between FFA, clubs and active supporter groups. The aim is to improve the fan experience and help the A-League grow.

 

The Northern Terrace and Terrace Australis are pretty much gone. Maybe the FFA consider that encouraging?

 

But we all live in a lawful society and being inside a stadium doesn’t mean anything is different.

 

And when I walk around on the street I expect to not be treated like a criminal by police, being inside a stadium doesn't mean anything is different.

I really really really like this post.

 

Send this through to every contact at the FFA you can find and post it everywhere davo.

[Wanderboy]

Last season RBB had a limit of 10 items/oversized flags allowed in the stadium, more that half of that was used to get the bands instruments in with a few oversized flags and banners. FFA aren't exactly making things easy for active support.

I suppose their argument is that the more flags there are, the better chance flares and the igniter's thereof can be hidden. I don't know. But it annoys me that there is such strict control over flags and instruments. It is this that helps create such great active support that this country doesn't see otherwise, and what the A-League sells itself upon.

[NickNova]

Davo is on the ball.

 

My favourite response of yours was:

 

If any individual can’t contribute to that without breaking the law, they aren’t welcome at A-League matches. Collectively, we will identify and remove trouble makers so that the overwhelming majority of supporters – active or not – can enjoy their match day experience in a safe environment.

If they can't find the Heart fan who walked half a lap of the ground to give a Wanderer a dog shot, even though he was caught on dozens of cameras, I have very little faith in their ability to accurately find and punish the few troublemakers there are at A-League games.

If the police want to prevent these things, how about they keep ALL active fans on opposite ends of the stadium and not let them casually walk all the way around and sit barely 10 meters from each other.

[mack]

 

Last season RBB had a limit of 10 items/oversized flags allowed in the stadium, more that half of that was used to get the bands instruments in with a few oversized flags and banners. FFA aren't exactly making things easy for active support.

I suppose their argument is that the more flags there are, the better chance flares and the igniter's thereof can be hidden. I don't know. But it annoys me that there is such strict control over flags and instruments. It is this that helps create such great active support that this country doesn't see otherwise, and what the A-League sells itself upon.

 

No-one in the RBB is dumb enough to allow some rando to smuggle in a flare in one of our important 'set pieces' like our flags or drums, because that would give Hatamoto, Security, Police & FFA a free pass to completely ban everything.

[dongle]

 

Last season RBB had a limit of 10 items/oversized flags allowed in the stadium, more that half of that was used to get the bands instruments in with a few oversized flags and banners. FFA aren't exactly making things easy for active support.

I suppose their argument is that the more flags there are, the better chance flares and the igniter's thereof can be hidden. I don't know. But it annoys me that there is such strict control over flags and instruments. It is this that helps create such great active support that this country doesn't see otherwise, and what the A-League sells itself upon.

 

 

LOl so naive, its all about control, nothing more,nothing less.

[NickNova]

If you want to see what happens in terms of control with random people who have no idea what they're doing, look at confetti and receipt rolls. They can't even hold onto them and throw them when instructed to.

[Boban]

No-one in the RBB is dumb enough to allow some "rando" to smuggle in a flare in one under of our important 'set pieces' like our flags or drums pullovers, because that would give Hatamoto, Security, Police & FFA a free pass to completely ban everything.

 

 

Of course not, they have been the model of self control. 

 

It was established at the W-League game that it was not "rando's" bringing in flares.  You are like a dog with a bone Mack, but your opinion on so many things is so clouded by your bias toward the RBB and WSW that your credibility is lessened greatly.

 

A bit like your reporting of the 19 innocent victims whose bans (whilst harsh in some circumstances) are anything but innocent. 

 

Balance is a wonderful thing Mack, it's a pity you don't display any when you write.

[mack]

 

 

 

NO one in the RBB is dumb enough to allow some "rando" to smuggle in a flare in one under of our important 'set pieces' like our flags or drums pullovers, because that would give Hatamoto, Security, Police & FFA a free pass to completely ban everything.

 

 

Of course not, they have been the model of self control. 

 

It was established at the W-League game that it was not "rando's" bringing in flares.  You are like a dog with a bone Mack, but your opinion on so many things is so clouded by your bias toward the RBB and WSW that your credibility is lessened greatly.

 

A bit like your reporting of the 19 innocent victims whose bans (whilst harsh in some circumstances) are anything but innocent. 

 

Balance is a wonderful thing Mack, it's a pity you don't display any when you write.

Feel free to leave.

 

The post was about the idea that flags and drums etc are limited because security believe we will smuggle flares in them. Nothing else.

[Rookoz]

From my twitter feed:

 

 

 

 

 

Rusty Woodger â€@rustywoodger51m

Melbourne Victory CEO Ian Robson just linked flares at football matches to violence and then the **** and murder of Jill Meagher. Seriously.

 

 

Supposedly said during a SEN interview...

[Erebus]

Seriously? WTF

 

/facepalm

[DontCallMeJacko]

Well, that's nothing short of disgusting.

[AEK]

That is insulting, mostly to the meagher family.....

[Rookoz]

ex-Essendon CEO... hmmm...