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    Wellington Steal 3 Points Late On


    mack

    Western Sydney Wanderers have fallen to a late Roy Krishna winner by Wellington Phoenix, the match ending 3-2 at the Sydney Olympic Stadium.

    The game took a half-hour to come to life, with Wellington stifling the Wanderers attack with non-stop fouling, hacking Alexander Baumjohann off the park in the 5th minute, and then Oriol Riera in the 40th minute. As usual for Wanderers games, the Referee, Jonathan Barreiro sat and watched the avalanche of aggressive physical attacks and did nothing to stop them, losing control of the game and rewarding Wellington for their anti-football. It's now 6 games under this useless official without a win for the Wanderers, it's time for the FFA to remove him from the pool, because he's out of his depth and can't control a game to save his life. His inability to stop Wellington from lashing out has now cost us two of our most expensive players.

    13 minutes into the half and the VAR hogged the spotlight yet again in the A-League. Bruce Kamau was cut down by Louis Fenton, with a lunge that missed the ball by a mile, and the referee awarded the clear and obvious penalty, only for the VAR to ludicrously intervene, send the referee to the sideline to watch a handful of super slow motion replays, and cause him to over-turn his own decision. It was just another in the litany of VAR failures that have robbed the Wanderers of legitimate goals or penalty chances.

    The guilty party Fenton then popped up to open the scoring. Fenton burst down the right flank, laid a short pass off to Singh, who flicked over the static, square defensive line as Brendan Hamill was caught ball watching and Tarek Elrich done for pace. It was a simple finish past the keeper for 1-0.

    Hamill made up somewhat for his defensive lapse in the 41st, after heading forward for a corner, he beat Wellington keeper Kurto to the in-swinging corner and nodded it into an empty net. Wellington weren't playing with anyone on the posts, but after that goal, they might want to reconsider that tactical choice in the future. Kwame Yeboah replaced Oriol Riera for his Wanderers debut just before half-time.

    The game settled into a rhythm of Wellington fouling and hacking away at the Wanderers before firing long balls over the top of the home team's slow defence. It paid off in the 82nd minute, Roy Krishna racing onto a long ball, Vedran Janjetovic repeated his Sydney Derby mistake without getting sent off, leaving Krishna an open net, that he found with an elevated chip over Hamill's desperate lunge.

    The home crowd of just over 7000 roared the Wanderers home, and it looked as if they would come away with a point if not all three points when Keanu Baccus equalised minutes later. Another well taken cross from Fitzgerald fell across the penalty area at the feet of Baccus, who blasted a fearsome strike into the roof of the net.

    Unfortunately for the Wanderers not only did they fail to win the game, they failed to even draw it. Tarek Elrich made another horrible defensive error, being drawn out of position and being far too slow to recover, allowing Max Burgess to deliver a cross into the near post area. Brendan Hamill was also too slow to react, letting Krishna in at the near post, his header ricocheting off a statuesque Janjetovic, into the post, his feet and then goal.

    It was an utterly undeserved three points, with the disgusting display of anti-fooball from Wellington being punctuated by Mark Rudan verbally attacking Wanderers assistant manager Jean-Paul de Marigny, as well as remonstrating with the Wanderers coaching staff at the full time whistle.

    Even if you're one of the people who think that finishing 6th and being knocked out in week one of the final series is a success, the Wanderers are now 7 points back from Adelaide in 6th position. If Adelaide put together a win against Melbourne in their upcoming clash, that figure will blow out to 10 points. It's clear we have no hope of winning a trophy this year, nor of qualification for the Asian Champions League. It is time for Vedran, Hamill and Tarek to be added to the pile of players who should leave the club either now or at the conclusion of the season, and for Markus Babbel to start our younger prospects to at least salvage a measure of value from the rest of the year as he rebuilds towards 2019/20.

    The Wanderers play Perth Glory in Perth on Sunday January 2013. Kick-off is 8pm Sydney time.

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    1 hour ago, Legionista said:

    I would normally be in favour of this type of approach. 

    However, im just not seeing it. 

    You’re sure, what’s that based on?

    This is based on a number of things.

    1. First he is a PROVEN coach at Bundesliga level taking Hertha to the title. You don't just do that if you can't coach. Hertha isn't a small club by any means but they certainly aren't the elite of Bayern Munich or Borrussia Dortmund. 

    2. We have had the bulk of the squad together for a while and there has been player unrest in the past and under performance. At what point do the players get the blame instead of the coach.

    3. We have had a number of coaching changes since Popa left - Foxe, Gombau and now Babbel. I don't believe any of those coaches were given a fair crack. You could argue Gombau had been given a fair shake but I would have given him one more season. I think he missed top 6 by one win, not that I think top 6 is anything to crow about. 

    4. We inherited a good chunk of players from the Gombau era. He signed a whole bunch of players towards the end of his tenure. WHY WHY WHY would we do that.

    5. Having a revolving door of coaches like East Sydney did a couple of seasons is not the way to build stability in your club. The season is a write off anyway and I would prefer to give him a clean shot rather than another expensive pay out and then a search for a coach. 

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    1 hour ago, Sithslayer1991 said:

    That 3rd goal was almost exactly the same as the goal we conceded against Victory again on Elrich's side almost the same move. Again I think Pheonix controlled the tempo in the 2nd half. Any time we had rhythm they would slow the game down, with fouls or time wasting they were happy with a point but always set up for a steal. Roly was also frustrating in that second half, he commited silly fouls that put pressure on our defence but on the ball he was actually quiet good.

    I agree, Rolys lazy fouls are annoying af. But I actually don't mind his attack, it's improving. He is a totally different style to Baumjohann. Roly makes his own runs and encourages movement around him. Baumjohann is much more static (lazy?) and is much more focused on trying to release others, something he hasn't been able to do all season as yet

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    Elrich tries hard but he simply is not up to it, he can't play that attacking fullback role and then get back and defend anymore as his legs are gone, that's why he actually looked so much better in the middle of defence, less miles to cover.  As for replacing him late in the game, well with the two early forced subs and the way Nix were getting away with fouling that was never an option last night, what if he replaced him then Vedran had fouled when he came out all of a sudden we end up with Hammil in goals or we use our third sub we cop two bad tackles we are down to 9,  the ref wasn't going to protect them, he proved that all game.  Vedran well he warms up like he doesnt want to be there and then follows that through all game and it is not going to improve until we get a reasonable second option to put a fire up his ass, he doesn't mind a flashy save but his work with his feet is abysmal and his positional play is also, that second goal no need to come out (again, you think he would of learnt his lesson) but once he does come out he has to get ball or foul, and the third goal, sure it was reflex but if he was positioned where he should of been one step further off his line on his near post the ball deflects away, he has been poor for months now. ABJ well injured cannot do much about that, Riera well I think that was a heartlidge injury personally but if they say they are injured what can you do.  So IMO that s what cost us last night, cant blame the kids.

    Edited by scarcev

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    After last night I'm basically done with going to games this season. Fed up with crap refs, with a venue that is taking the piss out of us every time we turn up, the general stench around the A-League and sokkah in this country, and players who wear our colours like Hollow Men.

    In for the 18th then Adelaide away and that'll do me. Will always be red and black but over the BS.

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    7 minutes ago, Jukes01 said:

    This is based on a number of things.

    1. First he is a PROVEN coach at Bundesliga level taking Hertha to the title. You don't just do that if you can't coach. Hertha isn't a small club by any means but they certainly aren't the elite of Bayern Munich or Borrussia Dortmund. 

     

    He took Hertha to promotion  to the Bundesliga and then was sacked midway through the season in in top flight.  Then he took over at Hoffenheim and got sacked there too.

    This is after being sacked by Stuttgart for a poor showing.

    Not that I want him gone necessarily, I mostly agree with you, give him time. But I'm not sure "proven Bundesliga coach" is a good description.

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    Well the HAL isn't going to attract the very top coaches is it? Can't see Pep coaching Down Under anytime soon. Issue for me is understanding the place of the game and all the nuances that go with the game in this country. I'm happy to keep Babbel now too. Chopping and changing never works anyway. Let's give him time to put together a squad. However I would still rather have a local coach who understands the game here, the region and the challenges.

    I'd have preferred to take a chance on Rudan. He's a Westie, like Popa. In reality the most successful A-League coaches have been brought up with the game here, Ange, Popa, Arnold, Merrick (NSL), Muscat

    Edited by beatsurrender

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    The criticism of Elrich is well warranted. 3 years ago no way any player could get past him he was so quick, use to bomb down the right flank and was ahead of any RB for Socceroos. But nowdays right around 80 minute mark he looks tired and every week seems to be beaten on his flank left or right by sheer pace, he is nowhere near what he use to be and he is essentially past it now. In saying that I actually think he improved in the last two games against Nix and Victory but he has lost so much of that speed and fitness his age is starting to show, and it is costing us games unfortunately for him. 

    Short turn around would like to see Cordier at some point in January, no way Elrich can back up in these games.

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    2 hours ago, T1m said:

    I don't get all the Kamau love.  He often gets fouled but that's because he holds onto the ball too long and slows down our entire attack.

    I tend to agree.  The last half hour *=(when I finally got to the game) he was frustrating.  Complaints about Soterio can be leveled at Kamau.  He runs well when in space but too often runs aimlessly and gets tied up with 2-3 defenders on him.  He needs to look up more quickly and pass, cross...  Too often his runs go nowhere and we lose the ball.

    He also goes missing at times in the game - complete lapses of concentration.  He has some really good qualities but needs to think and act more quickly.  A mate says he simply doesn't have a developed football brain and I'm beginning to agree.  He wasn't first team in City and not sure he should be with us (except we have no-one else) unless he puts his head down and works hard - and bu;ks up a little or learns how to not be pushed off the ball.

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    42 minutes ago, marron said:

    He took Hertha to promotion  to the Bundesliga and then was sacked midway through the season in in top flight.  Then he took over at Hoffenheim and got sacked there too.

    This is after being sacked by Stuttgart for a poor showing.

    Not that I want him gone necessarily, I mostly agree with you, give him time. But I'm not sure "proven Bundesliga coach" is a good description.

    Babbel will most likely keep his job regardless of the results. Does he desreve to though. ? For all the rhetoric of his pressers about #mentality we still lose and find newer and better ways to throw away games..I assume there will be a mass exodus of players again at seasons end and he will get HIS squad.

    There are some OK signs in style of play.

    I'm not anti Babbel or Babbel out but you can have all the experience as an elite player but sometimes it doesn't equate to a good mananger. You can show his resume as much as you like but he will, and should be judged on results here not what he did in a previous club. As I said when he was appointed ( and was chastised for saying so ) he has yet to achieve anything for WSW......he still hasn't, our results are poor.

     

    Edited by sonar

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    Snake  :nono:   2 goals were your fault , needs some bench time to think .Whats with the rushing out now???   Elrich:nono:  1st goal your fault , waaay too soft challenge .He’s too slow now n not strong enough

    ive just recovered from the heart attack I got from seeing us score from a corner....with a header! ...on target no deflections!   

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    1 hour ago, matty said:

    I agree, Rolys lazy fouls are annoying af. But I actually don't mind his attack, it's improving. He is a totally different style to Baumjohann. Roly makes his own runs and encourages movement around him. Baumjohann is much more static (lazy?) and is much more focused on trying to release others, something he hasn't been able to do all season as yet

    Stats say different. Baumjohann has created the second most chances in the league so far this season.

    Not bad in a side coming 8th.

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    I'm still a big believer in Babbel, my first thought when we signed him and the squad we have, I thought that maybe he will get the best out of them, so far he has only got the best out of the few.

    But I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because he is going to not only utilise our youth players into our first team, he will get his philosophy into the club and something to work with.

    Now as for the match itself, despite the criticism that Elrich gets, you can blame him for the 2 goals but those 2 goals weren't entirely his fault, yes he should have done better with the Fenton goal but that wasn't entirely his fault, no one picked up the run of Fenton from midfield, the whole defence was static when Fenton ran through and only Elrich reacted.

    As for their winner, again, Elrich should have done better when marking his man, when he left his man to press, Burgess was all by himself and by the time Elrich got back to mark him, Burgess was able to put the cross in for Hari Krishna to score that sneaky goal but once again, Elrich wasn't entirely at fault for this and here's why, just like the first goal, no one picked up the run of Hari Krishna running through our backline undetected, our defence was once again static, ball watching and it was too late when Krishna ran through and scored. The other thing I noticed was how Vedran exposed his near post, a lot GK I see have their posts covered depending on where the ball is in the area, because Vedran left a bit of gap between himself and the post, Krishna was able to get the ball in between Vedran and the post. Elrich should have done better when marking Burgess but at the same time no one in our defence were able to pick up the ran of Krishna.

    The criticism of Elrich is valid within reason but he shouldn't be the one coping the most **** from our fans. 

    Next thing, our defensive line, I'll start with Hamill because he is our **** captain with no voice, he is the captain, he plays CB and he should be leading our defensive line, since captain, he has done **** all. I never see him lead the line either, I don't see him encourage our players or show any form of character to help our team fight to get back, his head is down when we concede, he doesnt help the players to pick up and to continue to fight on. We need leaders in our team and Hamill isn't a leader.

    Now as for our back 4, one thing I have noticed last night while watching the game that I probably did not see for the whole season is that there is no communication between our back 4, there's no talk, maybe Vedran is the only one doing the talking to our defensive players but other then that, there doesn't seem to be any talk between our back 4. We seen it in the city game where our players fell asleep, and it happened again twice in the Wellington game when they took free kicks. No talk. When Krishna ran through on goal for their 2nd goal, neither Hamill or Zieglar picked him up, maybe Vedran is at fault for rushing out of the box but you know what, I do not blame Vedran for rushing out, our 2 CBs failed to pick up Krishna because there was no communication between them, after Krishna ran through, Hamill and Zieglar were both too slow to react and that may have forced Vedran to rush out. Likewise what happened with the 1st and 3rd goal, no communication, no talk between the players and no leadership this needs to be better and Babbel will know this.

    The only positives from this match is Yeboah, Baccus, Russell, JoD and Fitzgerald doing very well despite the injury to our 2 supposed best players in our team and fighting back when we go a goal down.

    ./rant over

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    I was surprised at Baumjohann's stats aswell they were epic, if only he had a scoring striker to feed 

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    2 hours ago, sonar said:

    Babbel will most likely keep his job regardless of the results. Does he desreve to though. ? For all the rhetoric of his pressers about #mentality we still lose and find newer and better ways to throw away games..I assume there will be a mass exodus of players again at seasons end and he will get HIS squad.

    There are some OK signs in style of play.

    I'm not anti Babbel or Babbel out but you can have all the experience as an elite player but sometimes it doesn't equate to a good mananger. You can show his resume as much as you like but he will, and should be judged on results here not what he did in a previous club. As I said when he was appointed ( and was chastised for saying so ) he has yet to achieve anything for WSW......he still hasn't, our results are poor.

     

    He does - I believe he is a quality manager

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    1 hour ago, SBW said:

     

    Now as for our back 4, one thing I have noticed last night while watching the game that I probably did not see for the whole season is that there is no communication between our back 4, there's no talk, maybe Vedran is the only one doing the talking to our defensive players but other then that, there doesn't seem to be any talk between our back 4. We seen it in the city game where our players fell asleep, and it happened again twice in the Wellington game when they took free kicks. No talk. When Krishna ran through on goal for their 2nd goal, neither Hamill or Zieglar picked him up, maybe Vedran is at fault for rushing out of the box but you know what, I do not blame Vedran for rushing out, our 2 CBs failed to pick up Krishna because there was no communication between them, after Krishna ran through, Hamill and Zieglar were both too slow to react and that may have forced Vedran to rush out. Likewise what happened with the 1st and 3rd goal, no communication, no talk between the players and no leadership this needs to be better and Babbel will know this.

    .

    ./rant over

    I agree with everything except this - Hamil was a behind Krishna when he burst through but had caught him and was level and goal side when Vedran came out - Vedran split them and Krishna went to his left (maybe to avoid Vedran coming out) to create space as Hamil kept his line - But had Vedran stayed in his box imho it was a defendable attack

    I think Vedran panicked

     

     

    Edited by Horus

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    20 minutes ago, Horus said:

    He does - I believe he is a quality manager

    The results at the moment say otherwise......2 wins out of 12....first time in our history we have lost 4 home games in a row....a goal differential of -9....8th on the ladder.......two clean sheets out of 12

    .I hope he succeeds but it doesn't look likely this season....I hope to proven wrong about his abilities as a manager....time will tell.

    Edited by sonar

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    4 hours ago, Harv said:

    Whoever it was, it wasn't Russell, yet Mack wants to down Elrich for every attack along down our left side. 

    What do I have to do with that post lol. First goal was on Tarek & Hamill for not stopping the man going into the box, second on Vedran (there was no way Krishna was scoring if he'd stayed on his line), 3rd goal was Elrich getting caught way out of position (he didn't need to be man marking Burgess, then Hamill & Vedran failing to deal with what should have been an easy clearance/save.

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    54 minutes ago, sonar said:

    The results at the moment say otherwise......2 wins out of 12....first time in our history we have lost 4 home games in a row....a goal differential of -9....8th on the ladder.......two clean sheets out of 12

    .I hope he succeeds but it doesn't look likely this season....I hope to proven wrong about his abilities as a manager....time will tell.

    First time we've had half the squad under 21 and playing with so many youth players, who are doing very well for their age and experience but aren't going to win any trophies - yet.

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    18 minutes ago, BoyFromTheWest said:

    First time we've had half the squad under 21 and playing with so many youth players, who are doing very well for their age and experience but aren't going to win any trophies - yet.

    Plus Grozos to return.

    Maybe Cordier will get some minutes.

    NYL has a bye so Herr Babbel can take some youngsters over to Perth for Sunday's game.

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    Yea I reckon our club is that cheap that with Oriel, ABJ, Risdon, Llorente all out and Tarek and Vedran in need of a break and with Russell, Cordier, Grozos, Kamau, Suman, Majok, Mourdoukoutis all heading over they might save a ton of money by getting our team flights to Perth on studentflights.com

    Edited by scarcev

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    Babbel isnt the problem - he wil probably get a better offer somewhere and can't blame him if he took it.

    Vedran - stupid brain explosions all year. But then the back ups are nothing so he knows he is safe. He needs to show some pride at least......

    Hamill - that last goal was embarassing.

    Is this season over yet? Kudos to anyone who went to three home games.

     

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    Elrich is now my new Sotirio. He is beyond useless. I agree with Mack. Elrich Vedran and Hammill must be added to a list of must go. I have lost belief in Riera and Vedran this last fortnight. I get it we needed journeymen like Elrich at the beginning but to bring him back. Seriously Tarek get a job not involving a round ball. I have also lost belief all will be okay when we return to Parra. This club is in crisis and their humiliating capitulation to FC over the Southwest FFA nonsense shows the beggars they've become. Lederer has reaffirmed my atheism. There is no God there is no saviour and Popas busy building Fortress West.

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    If we played a low defensive line and Tarek was told to stay in line with the central defence it probably wouldn't be as big as issue, but low defensive lines just don't work like they used to in modern football, so his lack of speed is being brutally exposed every week.

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    10 hours ago, Jukes01 said:

    4. We inherited a good chunk of players from the Gombau era. He signed a whole bunch of players towards the end of his tenure. WHY WHY WHY would we do that.

    A-League players moving clubs aren't signed at the end of the season, they get signed in January, because that's when off-contract players are allowed to talk & sign with other clubs for the next season.

    Right now, we might have already signed players for next year and some of our off-contract players might have signed for other clubs. The clubs & players agree not to announce players leaving until the end of the A-League season.

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    With Adelaide beating Victory tonight we are now 10 points away from 6th and you would have to say any chances of finals appearances, if any, are very slim. Season over almost.

     

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    13 hours ago, lloydy136 said:

    Stats say different. Baumjohann has created the second most chances in the league so far this season.

    Not bad in a side coming 8th.

    Interested to know what constitutes a 'chance' but obviously it's not a fair comparison, all things haven't been equal between the two

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    8 hours ago, sonar said:

    With Adelaide beating Victory tonight we are now 10 points away from 6th and you would have to say any chances of finals appearances, if any, are very slim. Season over almost.

     

    True. No way we are making up 10 points. At least we have Perth away coming up though and they aren't doing much !

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    To make up a 10 point gap we would have to show something we have not showed for 3 years never mind just this season. No evidence to base any optimism on and therefore the season is over.

    Only bright spot is Tate at the moment...hope the lad kicks on. How do we not have a half decent young keeper to put pressure on Vedran! He needs a break badly.

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    5 hours ago, matty said:

    Interested to know what constitutes a 'chance' but obviously it's not a fair comparison, all things haven't been equal between the two

    was more responding in my post to the perception that ABJ is 'lazy and doesn't create much' than the comparison to roly.

    look at the victory game as an example - from my memory ABJ created 3 very clear chances - pinpoint cross to Riera, corner on Ziegler's head at back post and through ball for fitzy to round keeper - that is as well as winning and scoring the pen.

    He has had a lot of games like this (as the stat I quoted backs up). I'm not sure what people are wanting him to do that he isn't doing - he is putting chances on a plate for our front 3 and they aren't taking them.

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    Tarek is a squaddie now and shouldn't be running the full 90 mins.

    I believe in Babbel but the question is will he be able to build the squad he needs and get the performance he wants to win a few trophies? I hope so.

     

    On that note, season is over, so let's blood as many of our youth guys as we can. Release players, bank 10% of the cap, do everything we can to maximise next year.

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