Wanderers Ban Active Support

[HillsPanther]

7 hours ago, beatsurrender said:

Who remembers the Aussie tennis open in jan 2017? Two lads with flares were caught. Ejected. And given a ticket refund! ! True story. 

I do remember that. That situation was never going to be a problem as the mainstream media loves the tennis.

[Davo]

Or the time a group of people were thrown out of the Australian Open for brawling and told they were banned from the venue... for the rest of the day.

[lloydy136]

Haha yep. A mate of mine was kicked out of the scg at his bucks day. Threw a half full beer at doug bollinger. He wrestled with security on the way out. I was driving the bus so was the only sober one. My conversation outside with the cop.....

Him: you ok to get him home safe?

Me: yeah i reckon so.

That was it.

They didn't even take his name. He was back at the scg 2 weeks later no problem.

So this argument that flares are the problem and all sports get treated the same is utter garbage in my experience.

The same behaviour is treated very differently depending on how police/security/stadium/media feel about the sport.

Edited March 2, 2018 by lloydy136

[MajorMelons]

10 hours ago, lloydy136 said:

So if there is a direct correlation between use of flares  and overpolicing/mistreatment of fans as you are saying - why weren't we treated better during the past 2 years when there were none used at home?

Because there are still flares at away games and friendlies, like last week? Or Because of brhaviour in seasons 1-3, cops have an excuse to max out their roster and earn overtime at our games for as long as they like?

I don’t know for sure, I’m not the police chief,  I’m just telling you what the cause an affect are. Flares = more policing 

[MajorMelons]

1 hour ago, lloydy136 said:

Haha yep. A mate of mine was kicked out of the scg at his bucks day. Threw a half full beer at doug bollinger. He wrestled with security on the way out. I was driving the bus so was the only sober one. My conversation outside with the cop.....

Him: you ok to get him home safe?

Me: yeah i reckon so.

That was it.

They didn't even take his name. He was back at the scg 2 weeks later no problem.

So this argument that flares are the problem and all sports get treated the same is utter garbage in my experience.

The same behaviour is treated very differently depending on how police/security/stadium/media feel about the sport.

So now get you mate to go back there again and light a flare, and see if the treatment from cops will be the same or not, I think you’be just proved my point. 

[lloydy136]

3 minutes ago, MajorMelons said:

So now get you mate to go back there again and light a flare, and see if the treatment from cops will be the same or not, I think you’be just proved my point. 

That same behaviour that i described at a wanderers game would get you a 5 year ban.

[Edinburgh]

Police and Security taking action against WSW supporters for taking off their shirts at the last Newcastle away match is related to flares?*

Security telling us not to touch the safety barriers or climb over seats (me once to get to my "seat") at Suncorp on 5 January while several people in the adjacent bays were doing the same thing constantly/repeatedly without any intervention is related to flares?

Flares obviously led to repercussions when they were being used regularly. Now that's just an unjustified excuse for petty crap like the above and other more restrictive and serious impositions.

*It now seems ironic that we've got a suspended points penalty for possibly the same shirtless fans wearing shirts last Sunday. 

[StringerBellend]

Throwing in my 2 cents. The policing and media coverage of incidents in other sports to football (and especially is) is totally different. That is totally linked and one feeds the others.

Countless examples, but Simon hill was spot on he said in AFL issues are (and rightly) seen as being with individuals, a couple of bad eggs spoiling it for everyone, whereas in football it is “football culture issue”.

People will disagree with me, and see me as leftie wanker, but football is (and always has been) seen as an “unaustralian” game for “wogs” and this is still at the heart of how the game is treated. 

A flare at or around a sokkah game is riot, after a Cronulla grand final it’s “Cronulla Celebrates”, a fight at football is a riot, at other codes it’s larrakins.. 

In the same hill interview, when presented with the its individuals areguement the AFL presented said but we don’t have large groups of people in packs going to the game. So the nob sees a march as threatening, again lack of understanding of football culture, with a bit of casual racism thrown in.

flares or no flares we will be treated differently by Media and police until we fully assimilate and become mainstream “Australian”- which means the same as the BBL..

so basically I agree with lloydy 

However as much as We might enjoy em, the flares don’t help at all. They give a already hostile media and policing a very visibilie stick to beat is with, which they are only to happy to do.

so I also agree a bit with melons 

if there is any hope of “football culture” being accepted then the flares have to go, but I don’t actually see football culture being accepted anyway.

football won’t be accepted until we all sit quietly, clap every so often, dance on cue to gangham style  and wear fast food containers on our heads. Which you can count me out. 

I prefer the clash to Coldplay 

did any of that make sense  

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by StringerBellend

[StringerBellend]

I’d add to my already overly long post. I’m a bit on the fence with the flares thing.

I don’t want a sterile BBL atmosphere. Active will always be a bit on the edge so maybe every so often there is a ban. 

The league is dying on its arse and that isn’t the flares doing that, shame FFA and club can’t be a bit more focussed on that.

as for ray Hadley and co. Stopping flares won’t stop them having a go at football. But if ray Hadley is on your side you are probably on the wrong side 

[hawks2767]

OK who wrote this, you nailed it.

 

Quote

I agree with much of the above but most certainly not all of it and the overall condescending tone taken towards the RBB and those that embrace their passion for the club and support of the team. The noise, theatrics of the “Tifo” (motif or banner for those uneducated) and the 2-way antagonistic chants between the RBB and the visiting teams active fans all add to an atmosphere not seen or experienced in any other sport in Australia short of a nail-biting AFL grand final. Other than lighting flares, amongst themselves, and no body ever being hurt by them, what else have the RBB really done that is so bad? Judging these individuals on their looks – tattoos, bare chests and tough-guy appearance – is actually a blatant display of prejudice, possibly discrimination, when their only significant crime, as the article stated, is making white, middle Australia feel scared and being an easy target for “Australian only” sports journos to ensure that football never gains a higher position in our national sports think than as a second, maybe third rate sport of the immigrants (unless of course the Matildas are kicking ass, which they are!).

Yes, the setting off of flares is illegal. It is dangerous and in some cases stupid. It is also dramatic, visually stunning and brings an atmosphere that so far only the T20 cricket – boring ass cricket – has somehow managed to grab onto in Australia. If you don’t want flares, work with the active areas for alternatives – smoke machines, flame spouts, fireworks – even the Mariners have been given a cannon, a weapon of mass destruction, which they “fire” to celebrate a goal. Flares in crowded spaces – dumb idea and illegal. Working with active fan areas to put in place safe alternatives – a very reasonable idea.

I for one have lost a lot of interest in attending matches since the move from Parramatta stadium and the continued reduction in the RBB and overall active fan presence. I remember 15,000 people standing at the 80th minute to Poznan, now, me and my daughters and maybe a dozen other people do it in the entire bay while the rest of the “fans” point at us and talk behind their hands. WSW fans in total, were known for our fierce passion and support of our team which made away teams have to not only outplay the 11 we had on the field, but also contend with the noise, atmosphere and feeling of animosity that 15,000 passionate, loud, in-unison fans everywhere they looked other than a small wedge in the away supporters bay. At whistle blow, these same fans would then pack up their stuff, organise their families and head home, talking about the game and the atmosphere that was present. Now, it more likely we go home lamenting the sub-standard facility, lack of ability to clearly watch and interact with the game, and bring up memories of what once was.

In summary – make it passionate, rowdy and awe-inspiring again, but find a way to keep it safe and get the FFA, media and scared non-attendees or latte sippers off our backs.

 

[MajorMelons]

It’s not whether WE agree with flares or not, it’s about the fact that they bring on attention from the Police. 

And im not saying that their attention is warranted,  or that flares are bad. And yes, you can get away with a lot more at other sports. 

My point is that flares bring police attention. That simple. 

 

[MajorMelons]

1 hour ago, Edinburgh said:

Police and Security taking action against WSW supporters for taking off their shirts at the last Newcastle away match is related to flares?*

Security telling us not to touch the safety barriers or climb over seats (me once to get to my "seat") at Suncorp on 5 January while several people in the adjacent bays were doing the same thing constantly/repeatedly without any intervention is related to flares?

Flares obviously led to repercussions when they were being used regularly. Now that's just an unjustified excuse for petty crap like the above and other more restrictive and serious impositions.

*It now seems ironic that we've got a suspended points penalty for possibly the same shirtless fans wearing shirts last Sunday. 

Exactly, flares led to repercussions, and all we can do now is bitch about whether the repercussions are fair or not, but the cause of the repercussions is pretty clear. 

[Edinburgh]

6 minutes ago, MajorMelons said:

It’s not whether WE agree with flares or not, it’s about the fact that they bring on attention from the Police. 

And im not saying that their attention is warranted,  or that flares are bad. And yes, you can get away with a lot more at other sports. 

My point is that flares bring police attention. That simple. 

 

And the opposing point is that the last 2 years at least show that the lack of flares doesn't stop the police attention which, if anything, has worsened in that time.

[Edinburgh]

2 minutes ago, MajorMelons said:

Exactly, flares led to repercussions, and all we can do now is bitch about whether the repercussions are fair or not, but the cause of the repercussions is pretty clear. 

It is to me - people singing, clapping, standing and enjoying themselves without hurting anyone else frightens the police.

[MajorMelons]

10 minutes ago, Edinburgh said:

And the opposing point is that the last 2 years at least show that the lack of flares doesn't stop the police attention which, if anything, has worsened in that time.

I’ve already addressed same argument above 

[MajorMelons]

9 minutes ago, Edinburgh said:

It is to me - people singing, clapping, standing and enjoying themselves without hurting anyone else frightens the police.

If you believe that statement theN good on you, lol. Let’s just agree to disagree. 

[Zelinsky]

The West of Sydney is football heartland, the home of football culture.

When we venture out of West of Sydney we venture into NRL/AFL territory, and are met by a different culture. When we played our first games at SOP security and police there thought they'd get a good dose of hooliganism. After all, that's what they media has been telling them. 18 months later things are somewhat more relaxed, but people have been driven away from our home games.

This is not just about flares. They are just the reason/trigger/excuse of authorities, media, venue operators to swing into action. At best FFA have been been silent in all of this, at worst they've been actively driving this counter-football culture. The Lowy's and consecutive incompetent non-football FFA execs have been and continue to hurt the game. They are a cancer. They need to go.

But we can't complain about FFA when we create a problem within the game which is then turned against the game. Some people believe it is okay to drive car while under the influence, smoke in a restaurant, or play loud music at 2am in a block of units.  It might be tempting and fun, but it is not okay any longer. You'll have your license cancelled, are thrown out of the restaurant and fined, and have your rental agreement torn up.

It is not a matter of "suit yourself"either. I certainly don't want to be put a danger by a piss head behind the steering wheel, breath in someone's smoke while having a meal, or listening to Motorhead from upstairs while I am trying to sleep.

Ripping flares is not okay any longer, in this time and place. I am I not interested in suffering the consequences of pyro fallout. Flare enthusiasts need to go to. Do football and your club a favour: don't renew your membership. Stay away. The rest of us will be just fine without you.

 

 

[WestSyd]

1 hour ago, MajorMelons said:

Exactly, flares led to repercussions, and all we can do now is bitch about whether the repercussions are fair or not, but the cause of the repercussions is pretty clear. 

And the repercussions then lead to people being abusive towards police, which then increases further tension. It's a vicious cycle which never ends. 

[btron3000]

1 hour ago, MajorMelons said:

It’s not whether WE agree with flares or not, it’s about the fact that they bring on attention from the Police. 

And im not saying that their attention is warranted,  or that flares are bad. And yes, you can get away with a lot more at other sports. 

My point is that flares bring police attention. That simple. 

 

But the whole thing is not that simple.

Let’s, for arguments sake, agree with you. Flares bring attention. Does that attention give the right for 5 cops to beat up one dude who more than likely had nothing to do with flares?

It’s not right to say “we bring it upon ourselves” because a) most people don’t, and b) the cops have a responsibility to keep the peace and respond appropriately.

[MajorMelons]

I agree, with what you said, which in in line with everything a said thus far. 

[WestSyd]

9 minutes ago, btron3000 said:

But the whole thing is not that simple.

Let’s, for arguments sake, agree with you. Flares bring attention. Does that attention give the right for 5 cops to beat up one dude who more than likely had nothing to do with flares?

It’s not right to say “we bring it upon ourselves” because a) most people don’t, and b) the cops have a responsibility to keep the peace and respond appropriately.

Maybe in the end if you want true "football kulcha" you will have to visit Belgrade or Istanbul. We can have elements of it. But the flares and ultras are a no go zone in this country. That's pretty obvious to everyone by now. 

Cops don't like being made to look like fools. So yeah, they will come down unfairly on some people at times. 

[btron3000]

36 minutes ago, FCB said:

 Some people believe it is okay to drive car while under the influence, smoke in a restaurant, or play loud music at 2am in a block of units.  It might be tempting and fun, but it is not okay any longer. You'll have your license cancelled, are thrown out of the restaurant and fined, and have your rental agreement torn up.

But this isn’t the same. To use one of your analogies, what has happened to us is not just the equivalent of the cops showing up at your party and telling you to turn the music down at 2am. In this analogy, you have another party the next week, and the cops fine you. Then they fine you again. Then they threaten to put you in gaol, so you eventually start turning the music down at 11pm.

Noticing their success, the cops start telling everyone to turn the music down at 9pm. Then they say “no parties”. Then they come into people’s houses during the day and say “no more music ever”, and fine anyone that plays it. Then they follow some people to other people’s houses and catch them sneakily listening to music on headphones, and fine them.

Eventually everyone is just sitting inside, not allowed to talk to anyone or make any noise whatsoever. So someone says “**** this, I’m not having fun, and neither is anyone else, I might as well have a party again”. And in an act of defiance, they do. Then all their neighbours go “it’s your fault we can’t speak to one another and are only allowed to sit here in silence”.

No, it’s the clearly ridiculous response of the authorities.

[btron3000]

4 minutes ago, WestSyd said:

Cops don't like being made to look like fools. So yeah, they will come down unfairly on some people at times. 

Right, so because they and security have failed to stop flares coming in and they feel stupid, they’re allowed to beat people up who have nothing to do with flares. Gotcha.

[MajorMelons]

This is another contradiction, people arguing that it is up to police and security to stop flares coming in, but then complaining about bag checks, pat downs and over the top cop presence. Make up you mind...

[WestSyd]

1 minute ago, btron3000 said:

Right, so because they and security have failed to stop flares coming in and they feel stupid, they’re allowed to beat people up who have nothing to do with flares. Gotcha.

Mate who are you going in to bat for? You are just giving me anecdotal evidence. I have never been beaten up. But that's because I'm not a smart arse and I don't get involved in, or stay away from that kind of rubbish.

[Zelinsky]

3 minutes ago, btron3000 said:

But this isn’t the same. To use one of your analogies, what has happened to us is not just the equivalent of the cops showing up at your party and telling you to turn the music down at 2am. In this analogy, you have another party the next week, and the cops fine you. Then they fine you again. Then they threaten to put you in gaol, so you eventually start turning the music down at 11pm.

Noticing their success, the cops start telling everyone to turn the music down at 9pm. Then they say “no parties”. Then they come into people’s houses during the day and say “no more music ever”, and fine anyone that plays it. Then they follow some people to other people’s houses and catch them sneakily listening to music on headphones, and fine them.

Eventually everyone is just sitting inside, not allowed to talk to anyone or make any noise whatsoever. So someone says “**** this, I’m not having fun, and neither is anyone else, I might as well have a party again”. And in an act of defiance, they do. Then all their neighbours go “it’s your fault we can’t speak to one another and are only allowed to sit here in silence”.

No, it’s the clearly ridiculous response of the authorities.

Every analogy has it's flaws. 

The club is building a ground with a 2400 safe standing capacity and hopes to introduce safe pyro. No one is going to bed at 9pm, at Parramatta at least. The club wants to see European/South American atmosphere minus pyro. 

[btron3000]

11 minutes ago, MajorMelons said:

This is another contradiction, people arguing that it is up to police and security to stop flares coming in, but then complaining about bag checks, pat downs and over the top cop presence. Make up you mind...

There’s thousands of Wanderers fans, they don’t all think the same.

[lloydy136]

4 minutes ago, MajorMelons said:

This is another contradiction, people arguing that it is up to police and security to stop flares coming in, but then complaining about bag checks, pat downs and over the top cop presence. Make up you mind...

You will notice that i never ever make this argument.

I want less restrictions and harassment of fans.

If it was up to me i wouldn't have any consequences for flares unless they were thrown.

But it those in charge deem them unacceptable then - as with anything - the consequences should  only apply to those that have actually committed the offence.

[Zelinsky]

Also: the new police command Inderstands that football differs from other codes. Club and Parra police are working together already. 

[MajorMelons]

7 minutes ago, btron3000 said:

There’s thousands of Wanderers fans, they don’t all think the same.

Obviously. I was referring to a few fans on here only, not all members