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  • Hulk Smashes Wanderers ACL Hopes

    mack

    By mack (edited)

    Brazilian megastar Hulk has torn apart the Wanderers Asian Champions League hopes, leading Shanghai SIPG to a 5-1 demolition against a typically inept Wanderers in Shanghai tonight.

    With the dreadful duo of Brendan Hamill & Artiz Borda in central "defence" it was always going to be an uphill struggle for the Wanderers, and Shanghai opened up the procession after only 3 minutes. Oscar combined with fullback Zhang Wei, and the young defender delivered an inch perfect cross, with the defenders left standing on the 6 yard box, Hulk monstered Jaushua Sotirio and thumped a bullet header giving Tyson no chance.

    Shanghai's 2nd Brazilian, ex-Chelsea star Oscar, put a second past the Wanderers 15 minutes into the game. He played a neat one-two with Hulk, before Oscar fired a first time strike to the far post and past Tyson.

    Mitch Nichols scored one of the earliest consolation goals in football history in the 20th, as Neville picked out Nichols with a cutback, and he emulated Oscar's finish to the far post giving the keeper no chance. Tony Popovic was excited on the sideline, but it would the last piece of inspiration from his side on the evening.

    In just the 25th minute it was 3-1. Tyson made the basic error of failing to control a shot sent straight at him, and defender Shi Ke mopped up the rebound with a tap-in.

    The parade of goals continued for the Chinese side with their 3rd Brazilian Elkeson scoring their fourth of the night moments after the 3rd. Hulk aimed a volley from the back post, his mishit fell fortuitously for Elkeson who had been left unmarked in the box and he made no mistake from point blank range.

    The one silver lining was that the Wanderers only managed to concede 1 more goal in the next hour of football, it came in the 75th minute from Wu Lei, as he pounced on a ball over the top of Clisby, burning the fullback for pace, his shot nutmegged Tyson.

    There's not much more to say than it was another game that the Wanderers team never looked like winning. The team played like they never even thought it was possible. Hulk might be paid more than the entire Wanderers team, but all the money in the world doesn't buy concerted effort on the pitch. Hulk delivered that in spades, his man of the match performance with the ball was punctuated with deep hunger and desire, a workrate matching the entire 11 men of his opposition, tracking back and looking to score even with the score blown out in the 2nd half.

    After just two games there looks to be little hope of progression from the group stage, and now the Wanderers go into the match against Adelaide having lost three games in a row.

    Edited by mack

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    btron3000

    Just watched. Yeah they are classy. But as has been posted, they were also vulnerable. A better side would have troubled them. And a solid defensive performance could have made it a close game. In the first game I think every one of the 4 could have been avoided. Last night the first one was probably the hardest to stop in terms of the size of Hulk but still no-one even competed with him. The other four, fmd.

     

    Second goal Dimas did the same job tracking as he did in the first game, and if he's not going to track then the CB needed to step up. It was a simple diagonal run which allowed a free man in the box. Horrible.

     

    Third - Tyson. Enough said.

     

    Fourth - Hamill ballwatching again, no-one picks up a guy in the middle of the box.

     

    Fifth - just a ball over the top. A loopy one at that.

     

    All this talk of money is well and good. But if you are hampered by that you have to play smart and determined. That starts with recruitment and selection - if Cornflakes is the only one that can organise the back four we have a problem. Playing Tyson-Hamill-Borda when the opposition are obviously strong up front but vulnerable at the back... hmmm.

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    sonar

    First post here. I have been lurking on the forum since the beginning and have experienced the highs and lows of being a wanderers fan. It is however hard to remember a point in our history as low as now. 

     

    The Asian Champions League. Essentially the absolute pinnacle of a footballing tournament we can participate in. We are the previous champions. We are the representative of Australian football in Asia in such a prestigious competition where the money involved is high and ability to showcase your abilities as a manager and footballer to the Asian market is heightened. To even get there, we have to go through a gruelling season and finish in the top 2 and possibly 3 of the A-league.

     

    Now to field the sides that we have over the past 2 games along with our mentality and the performances we have shown is nothing short of a complete and utter disgrace. I personally don't understand how the HAL is more important than the ACL, but as fans we deserve better the best possible chance to win in the most prestigious competition we can play in. The agony people had to go through to get to and from Campbelltown only to watch a NPL team be absolutely butchered is a pure degradation of to our fans. 4-0 at home and 5-1 away is not acceptable, even more so however the board and manager's approaches.

     

    I'm sorry but the likes of Hammil, Borda, Lustica, Griffiths, Sotirio, Dimas (to an extent) and Jumpei etc are not anywhere up to standard. Griffiths was a panic buy just to the appease the fans and he might as well pick up his pension payment tomorrow from Centrelink and get lost. Yet some fans calling for us to give him a chance? The problem is deeper than that. Why are we as fans accepting the signing of a NPL3 level 35 year old journeyman playing in Hong Kong? We were not long ago the Champions of Asia. Why are we accepting mediocrity? Why did the board get us in this position and why aren't we doing something about it?  On another note, Sotirio is by far the most talentless player to ever play for our club, and most likely in the A-league. Sotirios footballing talent and brain is so so low, I doubt he could even perform for lower end NPL clubs. But it is okay because "he works hard". I can work had as much as I want, devote my whole life even to becoming the 100m champion, but it won't happen. Sotirio is a useless ineffective winger, never ever ever ever beats his man, poor touch, no end product or vision. If you're a winger and can't offer anything offensively, become a fullback or in Sotirios case, it would be best to find another career. The worst of all is he constantly hides away from receiving the ball, constantly picked by Popa and if I am not wrong, he has the longest contract in the club. Disgraceful to think of the talented youth we have let go but keep hold of Sotirio. So many questions to be asked. Why has Dimas been given the captain's armband? I surely don't want him being the captain of the club. Why does Dimas still take set pieces even if the old grandmother that sits close to me can tell he is horrible at them yet Popa can't? Why is Jumpei in the team when he would be bullied off the ball in our under 13's training sessions? Why are Hammil and Borda called defenders? Why are they being payed to play football? 

     

    In essence Popa is the one who selects these players, and if he constantly selects talentless deadweight like Sotirio, Griffiths, Hamill, Borda, Lustica, Jumpei etc, surely some blame has to be centred on him. I have stood by Popa for a long long time, but I don't know how I can defend him anymore. Our "Rotation policy" worked so well that we lost 3 games in a row, conceding just 11 goals (This is decent given we had Hamill and Borda together for two games). What baffles me even more, is if he is rotating (which the way in which he does I disagree with) why is Neville and Clisby playing all 3 games, especially as in our untouchable 4-2-3-1 philosophy, those two probably run the most distance? On that note, any team we play, FFA cup semi-professionals or Shanghai with Hulk and Oscar we play 4-2-3-1? What is up with that? If we can't financially match other teams, can't we adjust our tactics to play into the weaknesses of the opponent? Maybe it would or wouldn't change the previous results, but the stubbornness shown by Popa is just indefensible.

     

    Essentially I feel humiliated by the club. Embarrassing ourselves in the prestigious competition we can play by playing dead weight players who show no passion for the badge is a nothing short of a disgrace. Yes we can't compete with the money other teams are spending, but that isn't a reason to disrespect our ACL history, fans and opponents by playing a weakened side that don't attempt to show any passion along with the inept club management and tactical approach. I understand Lederer has most likely limited the financial spending Popa has, but no money can buy effort.  

     

    Apologies for the long rant, but I just couldn't accept papering over the cracks anymore.

     

    The bottom line is we as supporters can do very little about recruitment or other problems that may beset the club. We have no input or influence other than non attendance at matches or non membership renewal.

     

    For me personally this forum is one way to vent frustrations. I think most fans are feeling the same as yourself.  Welcome anyway ! lol :xnod:

    Edited by sonar100
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    Sithslayer1991

    I thought the points Bozza and Rudes on foxsports made last night were quiet valid. Teams are punished for their success with the salary cap, if we had the team from last season... This season and champions league would be very different. I mean we have been bad but Adelaide have been far worse FFA give F*** all support to the clubs. I mean this THE champions league we are representing the country and to go out like we have the last two weeks... I mean where is the sport going in this nation?

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    StringerBellend

    I thought the points Bozza and Rudes on foxsports made last night were quiet valid. Teams are punished for their success with the salary cap, if we had the team from last season... This season and champions league would be very different. I mean we have been bad but Adelaide have been far worse FFA give F*** all support to the clubs. I mean this THE champions league we are representing the country and to go out like we have the last two weeks... I mean where is the sport going in this nation?

    Don't blame salary cap for break up of last years team. We aren't using the rules to the full. We only have one marquee (and we are only paying half his wages) we are spending at least 1.5m less than smurfs who are under the cap. It ain't the cap, it's the club spending a central coast budget and expecting to compete

    Link to comment
    Smoggy

     

    I thought the points Bozza and Rudes on foxsports made last night were quiet valid. Teams are punished for their success with the salary cap, if we had the team from last season... This season and champions league would be very different. I mean we have been bad but Adelaide have been far worse FFA give F*** all support to the clubs. I mean this THE champions league we are representing the country and to go out like we have the last two weeks... I mean where is the sport going in this nation?

    Don't blame salary cap for break up of last years team. We aren't using the rules to the full. We only have one marquee (and we are only paying half his wages) we are spending at least 1.5m less than smurfs who are under the cap. It ain't the cap, it's the club spending a central coast budget and expecting to compete

     

     

    Yep, and the prospect of another mass squad overhaul this coming off season fills me full of dread. But at least we have Borda on a 2 year contract right? Phew............

     

     

    :rolleyes:

    Link to comment
    redandblack

     

    I thought the points Bozza and Rudes on foxsports made last night were quiet valid. Teams are punished for their success with the salary cap, if we had the team from last season... This season and champions league would be very different. I mean we have been bad but Adelaide have been far worse FFA give F*** all support to the clubs. I mean this THE champions league we are representing the country and to go out like we have the last two weeks... I mean where is the sport going in this nation?

    Don't blame salary cap for break up of last years team. We aren't using the rules to the full. We only have one marquee (and we are only paying half his wages) we are spending at least 1.5m less than smurfs who are under the cap. It ain't the cap, it's the club spending a central coast budget and expecting to compete

     

    Popa is Billy Beane.

    See what happens when you get Sabermetrics wrong people!

    Link to comment
    Themumf

    Wonder if Gallop will be so quick to respond to media articles / comments from Fox saying he is useless as he was to jump on ones in a similar vein from the Bloc? 

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    Davo

     

    I thought the points Bozza and Rudes on foxsports made last night were quiet valid. Teams are punished for their success with the salary cap, if we had the team from last season... This season and champions league would be very different. I mean we have been bad but Adelaide have been far worse FFA give F*** all support to the clubs. I mean this THE champions league we are representing the country and to go out like we have the last two weeks... I mean where is the sport going in this nation?

    Don't blame salary cap for break up of last years team. We aren't using the rules to the full. We only have one marquee (and we are only paying half his wages) we are spending at least 1.5m less than smurfs who are under the cap. It ain't the cap, it's the club spending a central coast budget and expecting to compete

     

     

    You can't blame the salary cap for this year's squad if we aren't using it to the full but you can certainly point to the cap as part of the reason last year's team was broken up.

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    JayZko

    One of the reasons is why are we so keen to let all our talent play overseas in third rate leagues the ffa need to come to the table

    Invest in the freaken league stop sucking talent out

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    Carns

    One of the reasons is why are we so keen to let all our talent play overseas in third rate leagues the ffa need to come to the table

    Invest in the freaken league stop sucking talent out

    Because they're paid more than we can afford to pay them (with a salary cap). Bruce Djite is earning 3-4 times what he was at Adelaide. Dimi Petratos was offered wages X 3 what he was offered at the Jets. And neither of them is a really big talent. We simply cannot compete with the bigger/richer leagues.

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    Kizza

    Just watched it this morning - overmatched but disappointingly lacking commitment.

     

    Defending so poor.

     

    Borda is a social media tantrum away from passing Saba as our worst ever visa player. He is terrible and he cbf - winning combination.

     

    Adeleke?

    Link to comment
    JayZko

     

     

    One of the reasons is why are we so keen to let all our talent play overseas in third rate leagues the ffa need to come to the table

    Invest in the freaken league stop sucking talent out

    Because they're paid more than we can afford to pay them (with a salary cap). Bruce Djite is earning 3-4 times what he was at Adelaide. Dimi Petratos was offered wages X 3 what he was offered at the Jets. And neither of them is a really big talent. We simply cannot compete with the bigger/richer leagues.
    I know it's a freaken national disgrace the ffa gotta only stop thinking of mc and the Socceroos and promote our freaken game better to attract foreign dollars and the public into the game

    Or were screwed nsl 2.0

    And The acl squads have us Adelaide and Brisbane have produced are cringe worthy nsl at best wtf is going on

    Edited by JayZko
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    StringerBellend

     

     

    Just watched it this morning - overmatched but disappointingly lacking commitment.

     

    Defending so poor.

     

    Borda is a social media tantrum away from passing Saba as our worst ever visa player. He is terrible and he cbf - winning combination.

    Adeleke?

    You could argue adeleke caused less damage and had the decency to leave in January

     

    Adeleke 360 turn is still a favourite (in a bad way) moment

    Link to comment
    Paul01

     

     

    One of the reasons is why are we so keen to let all our talent play overseas in third rate leagues the ffa need to come to the table

    Invest in the freaken league stop sucking talent out

    Because they're paid more than we can afford to pay them (with a salary cap). Bruce Djite is earning 3-4 times what he was at Adelaide. Dimi Petratos was offered wages X 3 what he was offered at the Jets. And neither of them is a really big talent. We simply cannot compete with the bigger/richer leagues.
    I know it's a freaken national disgrace the ffa gotta only stop thinking of mc and the Socceroos and promote our freaken game better to attract foreign dollars and the public into the game

    Or were screwed nsl 2.0

    And The acl squads have us Adelaide and Brisbane have produced are cringe worthy nsl at best wtf is going on

    Especially after each team lost some or most of their squad from last season for a variety of reasons.

    We said goodbye to Bridge, Vidosic, Topor-Stanley, Jamieson, Alberto, Andreu, Castelen as well as fringe players all of whom had strengths and weaknesses.

    Most of the new signings have not matched the quality of last years team so we shouldn't have expected miracles.

    Adelaide said goodbye to Djite, Goodwin, Sanchez, Kamau, Mauk and a few others and are in the same boat as us.

    Brisbane said goodbye to Corona and now Petratos as well as having a host of injuries for defenders so no surprise in last night's result.

    We are placed fourth in the TV bidding war which stops the recruiting of decent players.

    The reason we got Andreu, Alberto and Dimas was due to La Liga 2 clubs not paying players. That changed this season so recruiting decent players of out that league is now prohibitive.

     

    Until the executives that are at FFA are true football tragics, we will never get our act together.

     

    #Gallop and cronies Out

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    Wanderer747

    I hope these results prove our campaign is done befor it started and the focus can return on the ALeague fully

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    StringerBellend

    Generally To get out of the group you need to win the home games and pick up a draw on the road.

     

    We should have played our strongest side against urawra if we won great, rest players for the long trip to china. If we still got beat at least we tried. As it is we have thrown it away without even really trying. The loss in China hurts but it's not the one that annoys me, it's getting smashed at home as we played a scratch side, resting players for an a league game that we lost anyway

    Edited by StringerBellend
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    nmh94

    Time to choose. It's painfully clear we can't do both comps. No side without Nico and Santa is going to be an effectivr attacking unit, and no side with Borda or Hamill in is going to be half way competent in defence. Given that we have been smashed in both games, we are stuffed in the ACL. Time to put all eggs in the A-league finals basket.

    Edited by nmh94
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    btron3000

    Generally To get out of the group you need to win the home games and pick up a draw on the road.

    You don't even need to do that. Traditionally in 6 game groups you will get out of your group with 10 points, unless one team is so painfully bad that they might only pick up a draw or two. (Could be us lol)

     

    Sometimes 9 pts will qualify, at times teams have got through with 8!

     

     

    Time to choose. It's painfully clear we can't do both comps. No side without Nico and Santa is going to be an effectivr attacking unit, and no side with Borda or Hamill in is going to be half way competent in defence. Given that we have been smashed in both games, we are stuffed in the ACL. Time to put all eggs in the A-league finals basket.

    Yep.

     

    At the start I think we should have played our best team in the ACL and hoped for tough draws or scraping wins in A-league, as there are a few a-league rounds where we've got no ACL games either side and we could have put the best team in for them. There is also at least one week where there are no a-league games so we've got a week and a half to prepare for that ACL game.

     

    So I think it was a manageable dream if we had got two or three points the first two ACL games. But that's done now. 

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    mack

    Is this the first time we haven't had any players on ACL only contracts?

    We would have at least one player on an ACL contract but Melling got hurt so Zinni became an injury replacement in the A-League as well as an ACL player.

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    Davo

     

    Time to choose. It's painfully clear we can't do both comps. No side without Nico and Santa is going to be an effectivr attacking unit, and no side with Borda or Hamill in is going to be half way competent in defence. Given that we have been smashed in both games, we are stuffed in the ACL. Time to put all eggs in the A-league finals basket.

    Yep.

     

    At the start I think we should have played our best team in the ACL and hoped for tough draws or scraping wins in A-league, as there are a few a-league rounds where we've got no ACL games either side and we could have put the best team in for them. There is also at least one week where there are no a-league games so we've got a week and a half to prepare for that ACL game.

     

    So I think it was a manageable dream if we had got two or three points the first two ACL games. But that's done now. 

     

     

    We should have just focused on the A-League games that we can realistically win and put a B team in for the others. After the derby we should have only played a strong team in the Wellington, Newcastle and Adelaide games and tanked the Perth, City and Victory games. Beating the teams below us is achievable (we've already beaten them all this season) and would be enough to make the finals.

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    Smoggy

    How good was the kit though?

    Woeful performance from a woefully chosen team. Nuff said

    Kit was the best thing about last night, would buy if available.

    Link to comment
    magicwand

    I thought the points Bozza and Rudes on foxsports made last night were quiet valid. Teams are punished for their success with the salary cap, if we had the team from last season... This season and champions league would be very different. I mean we have been bad but Adelaide have been far worse FFA give F*** all support to the clubs. I mean this THE champions league we are representing the country and to go out like we have the last two weeks... I mean where is the sport going in this nation?

    I'm not sure this season's mess is due to salary cap pressures following success. At the beginning of the season Popa was adamant that this squad was a significant improvement on last season's squad. Even recently he was insisting that he couldn't be happier with the squad he has assembled. Unfortunately it was obvious to all and sundry very early on that this group was deficient in many areas. To make matters worse, he's signed a fair few of the duds on multi-year contracts. It really hasn't done Popa's reputation much good at all. However given his track record and the success he has brought to the club (sometimes mystifyingly so) in our short period of existence, it would be pretty churlish to turf him out now. I think the least he deserves is to be allowed to serve out his contract. Of course he might have other ideas.

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    WHACKO

     

    How good was the kit though?

    Woeful performance from a woefully chosen team. Nuff said

    Kit was the best thing about last night, would buy if available.

     

    The black armbands on  the sleeves were appropriate , marking the death of our ACL campaign

    Link to comment
    Swanderer

    Well a very strange experience! Just back from Shanghai actuallly and game selection that night, as most everyone here has posted, was a puzzle. When the team was announced it was not promising considering who Shanghai had just named.

     

    But as much as some of our players were never up to contesting the likes of Hulk and Oscar still the midfield persisted in trying to take the ball through individually or short back passes that were easily read  . And yet when the ball was ( rarely) sent wide or behind their midfield it caught Shanghai scrambling as a team to position themselves..... 

     

    I just can't follow the reasoning....

     

    Otherwise the small band of supporters there made ourselves heard through the gaps of  the orchestrated SIPG "actives", to the locals surprise, and acknowledged by the lads.

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