Wanderers Obliterated By Sydney FC

[sonar]

2 minutes ago, FCB said:

Indeed.

I just watched the presser. Gombau is defiant. In Adelaide it took him a whole pre-season and 10 round for something positive to emerge. And he had senior players that he picked who eventually delivered the goods. The lot that played yesterday is the group that is responding to his instructions in training, and may just be the backbone of "Project Gombau". They were outplayed and outclassed by the Smurfs.

We'll see in the next two, three games if Bridgey, Lustica, Melling, Oriol, Herd are injured, not fully fit, or  indeed incompatible. That the established players Thwaite, Santa, Llorente and Jumpei were all on the bench for such a big game is quite telling. That Roly is not a 10, Cornflakes not a play-out-from-the-back CB, and Cejudo is not a marquee draws a worrying picture.

This season seems cooked.  

 

 

 

So it's all Gombau's fault.? All of it.? 

[Thommo]

2 hours ago, StringerBellend said:

The Problem with squad and most of this was becoming clear before Gombau

Centre backs are ageing and too slow

We lack creativity and threat in the attacking midfield spots

Sotirio is useless, running fast might win stuff in athletics but is pointless in football if you can’t control the ball 

Jumpei is a slightly more exotic sotirio with the odd step over and nutmeg but again no end product 

Roly isn’t a number 10 (and has been disappointing since round 1)

cejudo is yet to have any meaningful impact

Herd is an odd one, doesn’t seem committed to being here at all

But yes that squad should get top 4 or at least 6 not bottom of the table embarrassment 

last night is mainly on gombau 

We have a decent back four (albeit slow) but instead he played only 1 of them in the back four and another in midfield 

I don’t buy at all Into this process nonsense and more importantly the players don’t 

Can't argue with that Stringer

[Zelinsky]

1 minute ago, sonar said:

So it's all Gombau's fault.? All of it.? 

 

Fault? It's his responsibility. He applied for the job, successfully sold his philosophy to the board, got the job, and now he is in charge. He leaves no doubt about that in the press conference. He is not surprised that some of the players are pushing back. He's seen it before. It took him a season in Hong Kong to implement his philosophy, and almost five months in Adelaide. The players are asked to adapt, or else. 

Unless he can convince the senior players to buy into the project, or replace them with performers who are willing, this season promises to be worse than the last one.  

[Portillo]

Gombau constantly said in his first season at adelaide that his project wouldn't bear fruit until season 2.

[btron3000]

18 minutes ago, Legionista said:

The WSW should be limits, leading the way, playing a brand of football that OTHER clubs are looking at and saying “we need to up our game”. 

If you want the league and the national team to remain minnows by all meams hoof the ball. 

I don’t see anyone saying that’s what we should be. But there’s a difference between forcing a philosophy on players who can’t do it and bringing through players that can. It’s like Ange - you don’t build a style from the national team down, you build it up.

If Josep is building it up by playing those he thinks can help him in the future and this season is a write-off then that’s fair enough. But you’d have thought he’d have been smarter than to start the revolution in the derby. Plenty of smart coaches have come a cropper by trying to make too many changes too fast. Losing 0-5 in a derby is not acceptable. If this plan is going to take months then what’s one extra week?

Besides, even if that is what he’s doing, how can he pick Clisby - an extremely limited footballer - over Llorente? Or Risdon at RW when Hamill is also limited? Or even Corny over Thwaite when Thwaite is a better passer? 

The only thing i can think of is he’s getting rid of those who don’t listen to him, but does Llorente strike anyone as the kind of guy that won’t just do what is needed?

[sonar]

10 minutes ago, FCB said:

 

Fault? It's his responsibility. He applied for the job, successfully sold his philosophy to the board, got the job, and now he is in charge. He leaves no doubt about that in the press conference. He is not surprised that some of the players are pushing back. He's seen it before. It took him a season in Hong Kong to implement his philosophy, and almost five months in Adelaide. The players are asked to adapt, or else. 

Unless he can convince the senior players to buy into the project, or replace them with performers who are willing, this season promises to be worse than the last one.  

I agree with you. And if I was in his place I would be saying to management when the transfer windows opens in January, any player that doesn't want to be there and put in and performs then f*ck off, we'll let you go and bring in players that will put in the effort.

As an employee ( and players ARE employees of the club ) if I went in to work and there was a takeover and new management put in place, and if I went about my work with the attitude of I don't like how you are going about things so I'll just jack up and perform poorly, I would rightly be asked to leave. I just take exception to the fact that he is being blamed for the players attitude when he wasn't the personnel manager that chose them.

Edited December 10, 2017 by sonar

[That70sDude]

1 hour ago, mack said:

And in 12 months Arnie will still be playing Matt Simon to come on in the 75th minute after their winning football (smashing it long, pressing opposition teams right up to the keeper and forcing them to punt it long) has put them 1 or 2 goals up.

There **** last night looked heaps slicker than that description suggests.

Hate those blue baggers all you like but damn they got some classy players and did some classy football, I just wish we had some guys at all who could make some passes and runs the way they do. 

[StringerBellend]

As I discussed with another forumite on the train home

That felt like it was the “Requiem for a Dream” movie themed round 

I felt about the same after that film as I felt last night 

 

Alternatively it could be thought of as the Ron Jeremy round

 

 

...and we weren’t Ron 

 

Edited December 10, 2017 by StringerBellend

[btron3000]

Yeah but Sonar if you were an employee brought in to do a job and then the management changed and they tried to get you to do a totally different one, you’d be pissed too. And if the changes were big enough you’d also be redundant and get a payout, something not possible here. 

FWIW, I’m not totally blaming Josep, this is the kind of thing that happens when managers change. But he’s gotta be smarter about it. Picking only one of your best back 4in the backline for a derby is not smart. 

[Zelinsky]

@sonar

There was nothing wrong with the player's attitude in the Allianz derby last month. Far from it. Now there is, apparently, since Gombau is in charge. His way of man management either doesn't work with certain players, or they won't adapt, or both. 

Either way: something has to give, and it will. The worst case scenario is that club and coach are determined to play the season with last night's line up, and carry five Pios to the finish line.

[sonar]

1 minute ago, btron3000 said:

Yeah but Sonar if you were an employee brought in to do a job and then the management changed and they tried to get you to do a totally different one, you’d be pissed too. And if the changes were big enough you’d also be redundant and get a payout, something not possible here. 

FWIW, I’m not totally blaming Josep, this is the kind of thing that happens when managers change. But he’s gotta be smarter about it. Picking only one of your best back 4in the backline for a derby is not smart. 

You would be surprised at how adaptable people are when encouraged to do so. I have been in companies where there has been a takeover and they implement a new system of work. I've never had a problem asking them why they are changing, what are the benefits, and what do I need to do to adapt.

[btron3000]

You know, I don’t see this “attitude” thing as much as others. I actually saw dudes trying out there, even when down 5. Risdon reaching for a pass on the sideline and collapsing on the ground in frustration when failing, Roly trying to beat heaps of dudes wiht the ball etc.

I think when players are unsure of their jobs or unsettled in new roles then it can look like they aren’t trying. I think that’s what’s happening. There might be a few pissed off, but I’d say they are the dudes on the bench, not the starters.

[sonar]

5 minutes ago, FCB said:

@sonar

There was nothing wrong with the player's attitude in the Allianz derby last month. Far from it. Now there is, apparently, since Gombau is in charge. His way of man management either doesn't work with certain players, or they won't adapt, or both. 

Either way: something has to give, and it will. The worst case scenario is that club and coach are determined to play the season with last night's line up, and carry five Pios to the finish line.

or 5 Buluts....lol

[WestSyd]

8 minutes ago, That70sDude said:

There **** last night looked heaps slicker than that description suggests.

Hate those blue baggers all you like but damn they got some classy players and did some classy football, I just wish we had some guys at all who could make some passes and runs the way they do. 

All they need is for some people to go their games now.

[Neverbloom]

17 minutes ago, WestSyd said:

All they need is for some people to go their games now.

i dont think we can make fun of anyone for crowd numbers tbh

[braad]

2 hours ago, wsw2154 said:

You know what the difference is with those ****ers and us?   Stability.....

They brought arnold in who spun the place right around and built a win at all costs team mentality. Their club culture was also changed when this all happened.  Prior to that they were in the wilderness for a while with poor coaches and recruitments. 

As for ourselves  we reap what we sow....

Firstly we move (through a fan vote) to a stadium that in no way replicates what we had at parramatta, which our identity was first established and built upon, with our crowd atmospheres and passion to play for the shirt.  Look at all of our wins at the joint when the pressure was on. ACL finals, the brisbane 5-4  etc  that was all off the back of 20,000 fans cheering the team to the finish.    Why didnt we go to penrith and play on a rectangular ground??  To mimic parra?   Stupid **** decision that one.

Secondly our famous match atmosphere was severely dented with the continual rubbish thrown at the RBB via the media over real trivial things making them out to be a massive problem etc.   

Thirdly the mass rotation of signings year in year out has not allowed us to maintain a stable team harmony and culture to build upon like esfc has for the past 3 seasons. 

What we have now doesnt even feel like what we had in season 1.   

The place has lost its way.......  

Even in the first few seasons  we never copped heavy derby defeats,  as the contests were fought hard and with passion for the shirt.   In the past 2  seasons we have copped a 5-0 and 4-1.....  

Where we are today is a buildup of the rapid decline post move from parra..  

Your first point about SydFC is (possibly) exactly what’s happening with us now. We go through this shitty teething crap for the benefits in future. If this wasn’t a derby people would be pissed but not at “Imma throw ma membership in da fire” angry (not saying you are, I’ve just been watching social media respond). Nothing good in life comes for free, Gombau  has a record of making things come very good after initial issues, so maybe in time other fans will be envious of our improvement.

 

The second point about the fans deciding which stadium to go to is a bit off I believe. When the decisions for a new stadium was being made, there pretty much weren’t any other viable options full term. With needing a stadium that housed ALL of our members (plus room for growth - optimistic), met FFAs rules on all active being in seated areas (stadiums didn’t have enough seating for our active and regular higher paying members), was central to all areas of Sydney, it limited it a great deal. Also, if my understanding is correct, Panthers didn’t want WSW playing at their stadium out at Penrith. Pretty sure our vote was superficial as the club knew what was actually available.

 

The third point is painful, but don’t forget that the HAL style has grown since we rocked up with our solid and simple defence. Teams and Attackers are more aware and able than they were, the gameplay has matured, even despite the game being held back by the FFA. That defence, if played now probably wouldn’t be a top 4 defence, probably mid table at best. Teams are best judged against their contemporaries, but when the base level of the sport has lifted then it’s hard to say a defence which gave possession away more wouldn’t have been punished greater against a faster and more complicated attack

 

I am hopeful that this pain now means that next season we are firing and a real contender. In 18 months time when we are back at OUR stadium, playing OUR football then we can have sit back and say the growing pains were worth it as it sets us up for the next decade. I’m no Nostradamus, but I am a hopeful (and realistic that with no relegation we can try and try and try again).

It sucks now, but where will we be in 2 years? We will have a brand new rectangular stadium back in our home land, with all the fruits of Parra CBD. The Gombau experiment is either flying, or gone and forgotten.

As a comparison, we look East to SydFC and they are wandering (lol) around trying to plant roots as their stadiums rebuilt. They struggle for fans now at their strongest which such a great team, how will they go without a proper permanent home? 

 

I am usually a cynic, but I am very hopeful for our club

Edited December 10, 2017 by braad
I’m a ******* derp

[Potkorok]

Come on Goat. They are winning everything and they got a crowd of 13000 to the ffa cup final, then 10000 to their next A League match and they would have been lucky to have brought 6-7000 last night. I don't think anyone can deny they have the most fickle and entitled fans in the league. If we were having their success we would be drawing considerably more, even to Homebush!

[braad]

1 minute ago, Potkorok said:

Come on Goat. They are winning everything and they got a crowd of 13000 to the ffa cup final, then 10000 to their next A League match and they would have been lucky to have brought 6-7000 last night. I don't think anyone can deny they have the most fickle and entitled fans in the league. If we were having their success we would be drawing considerably more, even to Homebush!

 

Be fair Potkorok, this was their official Le Cove away trip. It’s not easy travelling so far which such little means. This is right up there with our Adelaide GF travel for difficulty and distance... can’t expect much

[Potkorok]

I've gotta concur with Btron as well. I honestly didn't see the lack of desire in the players that others did. Felt that Roly and the Baccus boys never gave up. Risdon tried his best out of position. Players out of position yes, some confusion and poor decision making yes and some of them are prob not of the standard we'd like. It felt like a preseason team up against a bunch who had been playing for months. And I guess that's the thing - Gombau hasn't had the luxury of the pre-season. Not that I'm excusing the odd lineup but I reckon that the season was, to some extent anyway, stuffed once Popa left so close the start of it. 

[WestSyd]

28 minutes ago, GoatyMcGoatFace said:

i dont think we can make fun of anyone for crowd numbers tbh

Victory, Roar and us would all be getting better crowds than them if we were having similar success. Their crowds are terrible considering what they are going through. 

[tardotz]

12 minutes ago, WestSyd said:

Victory, Roar and us would all be getting better crowds than them if we were having similar success. Their crowds are terrible considering what they are going through. 

Are you saying they are consistent and our fans are only fair weather?? 😁

[luisenrique]

Since Sotirio went off injured, we've conceded 7 goals and not scored a single one.

it's like asking Argentina to play without Messi.

[StringerBellend]

22 minutes ago, WestSyd said:

Victory, Roar and us would all be getting better crowds than them if we were having similar success. Their crowds are terrible considering what they are going through. 

This is probably true but the sad thing is it’s still theory

I have no doubt That If we were having the results they are we would be getting bigger crowds but that’s a theory 

the shame is for a variety of reasons it’s still just a theory last last season was a massive missed opportunity due to our crap squad and this year is panning our the same 

 

 

[StringerBellend]

10 minutes ago, luisenrique said:

Since Sotirio went off injured, we've conceded 7 goals and not scored a single one.

it's like asking Argentina to play without Messi.

Yes that is an interesting theory 

[WestSyd]

1 minute ago, tardotz said:

Are you saying they are consistent and our fans are only fair weather?? 😁

They get paranoid coming seventh, and Arnie gets all schizo. Imagine how they would handle being ninth and having us thrash them in second gear?

[GD07]

(It’s not a new phenomenon) but our movement in and around the box is dreadful. Statue impressions everywhere. 

[xxBrandonxx]

Is it pre-season yet? fml.

 

 

[wendybr]

4 hours ago, btron3000 said:

You know, I don’t see this “attitude” thing as much as others. I actually saw dudes trying out there, even when down 5. Risdon reaching for a pass on the sideline and collapsing on the ground in frustration when failing, Roly trying to beat heaps of dudes wiht the ball etc.

Haven't agreed with all you've been saying today Btron, but I 100% agree with that.

Our players might not all have been in tears at the end of the game as Santa was - his time with us  goes back much further and his commitment is therefore deeper. To me that's understandable.

But I honestly didn't see anything of the lack of effort or commitment some here have observed in our players.

I saw what you saw - despite the fact that by half way through the game they were probably wishing the ground would open up and swallow them.

If it's bad for us to suffer a hiding like that, watching from the sidelines, it must be so much worse to be out there and living it. Yet they kept trying.

 

EDIT Just noticed that Potkorok also agreed. 

[wendybr]

4 hours ago, GoatyMcGoatFace said:

i dont think we can make fun of anyone for crowd numbers tbh

 Well said Goat!

[wendybr]

4 hours ago, braad said:

Your first point about SydFC is (possibly) exactly what’s happening with us now. We go through this shitty teething crap for the benefits in future. If this wasn’t a derby people would be pissed but not at “Imma throw ma membership in da fire” angry (not saying you are, I’ve just been watching social media respond). Nothing good in life comes for free, Gombau  has a record of making things come very good after initial issues, so maybe in time other fans will be envious of our improvement.

The second point about the fans deciding which stadium to go to is a bit off I believe. When the decisions for a new stadium was being made, there pretty much weren’t any other viable options full term. With needing a stadium that house ALL of our members (plus room for growth - optimistic), met FFAs rules on all active being in seated areas (stadiums didn’t have enough seating for our active and regular higher paying members), was central to all areas of Sydney, it limited it a great deal. Also, if my understanding is correct, Panthers didn’t want WSW playing at their stadium out at Penrith. Pretty sure our vote was superficial as the club knew what was actually available.

The third point is painful, but don’t forget that the HAL style has grown since we rocked up with our solid and simple defence. Teams and Attackers are more aware and able than they were, the gameplay has matured, even despite the game being held back by the FFA. That defence, if played now probably wouldn’t be a top 4 defence, probably mid table at best. Teams are best judged against their contemporaries, but when the base level of the sport has lifted then it’s hard to say a defence which gave possession away more wouldn’t have been punished greater against a faster and more complicated attack

I am hopeful that this pain now means that next season we are firing and a real contender. In 18 months time when we are back at OUR stadium, playing OUR football then we can have sit back and say the growing pains were worth it as it sets us up for the next decade. I’m no Nostradamus, but I am a hopeful (and realistic that with no relegation we can try and try and try again).

It sucks now, but where will we be in 2 years? We will have a brand new rectangular stadium back in our home land, with all the fruits of Parra CBD. The Gombau experiment is either flying, or gone and forgotten.

As a comparison, we look East to SydFC and they are wandering (lol) around trying to plant roots as their stadiums rebuilt. They struggle for fans now at their strongest which such a great team, how will they go without a proper permanent home? 

I am usually a cynic, but I am very hopeful for our club

"Wise you are....for one so young, Brad! "

OK - so Yoda never said that - but that's a great post Brad!

And it was the Star wars round.