Armageddon Thread

[Burztur]

Speak for yourself but Kitchen is a major transit point for me.

[Flytox]

New Zealand is moving down to Level 3 restrictions soon.

 

Ms Ardern also outlined how restrictions will change once New Zealand moves to level three — more in line with the current measures in Australia. They include:

• People must remain at home unless they are going to work, school, exercising or getting essentials (the same as alert level four)
• People must continue to work and learn from home if they can
• Early learning centres and schools will be physically open up to Year 10
• Industries like construction, manufacturing, forestry and retail will be allowed to open as long as they are 'COVID safe'
• Parks and beaches are open to exercise but people are encouraged to 'stay local' and keep 2 metres away from one another
• People can expand their bubble of social contacts to include close family, isolated people, or caregivers

Overall, level three will allow more economic activity, such as construction, manufacturing and forestry, Ms Ardern said.

But she cautioned it does not allow for more social activity, adding the country "needed to get the next phase right" so they don't end up yo-yoing between levels.

from abc news site.

[SomeGuy1977]

Virgin goes into administration.  

[Prydzopolis]

 

 

[Paul01]

The gRump is on the nose in the US and he is as trustworthy as the Plod on refugees. Is this the beginning of end for Trump Inc?

Analysis: Two months into the worst crisis of his presidency, Trump still can't answer one crucial question http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-21/donald-trump-deflects-coronavirus-blame-lockdown-protests/12165158 

[pseudonym]

 

[wendybr]

30 minutes ago, Prydzopolis said:

 

 

What a great Dad. 

That's probably why Morrison wants his kids back at school. He doesnt like them under his feet. 

[Carns]

21 minutes ago, wendybr said:

What a great Dad. 

It's fake.

[wendybr]

Ahhh ok!  

It seemed very......undisciplined....for someone supposedly on live TV.

[StringerBellend]

On 17/04/2020 at 9:59 AM, wendybr said:

Heard a caller at the very tail end of Alan Jones' show, complaining that his young grand daughter can't have a birthday party in the local park with ten friends, so why is she able to potentially sit in a room with 31 other people.

With AJ's elderly demographic, he might be on board with a push back against an earlier return of schools to normality than is set to occur in the rest of society?

But I'm not sure.

You listen to Alan Jones?

This explains your love of the Alan Jones for the Twitter generation..guy who's name I can't remember

[StringerBellend]

On 17/04/2020 at 6:14 PM, Wanderboy said:

Not only governments Flytox.

 

 

Nice jacket

[wendybr]

26 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

You listen to Alan Jones?

This explains your love of the Alan Jones for the Twitter generation..guy who's name I can't remember

Nope. 

[SomeGuy1977]

1 hour ago, StringerBellend said:

Nice jacket

The cream, the bone, the off-white, the white, the ivory or the beige?

[Prydzopolis]

Article about a review of the covid 19 app by an organization called Cyber Security Cooperative Research Centre (CSCRC). Hopefully this brings a bit more information from a different source than the PM/government in terms of the security or privacy concerns around it

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-21/cyber-agency-supports-security-coronavirus-tracing-app/12168136?pfmredir=sm

[Wanderboy]

On 20/04/2020 at 4:16 PM, Davo said:

According to this ABC article:

I have no problem with a voluntary app that I can delete off my phone whenever I want. Seems like all it will ask for is permission to access Bluetooth. I know with iPhones if an app wants to access anything like location services, the camera, the microphone, photos, contacts etc. it needs you to specifically allow it. This app wouldn't be able to touch any of that stuff unless you let it and since the government says it's not doing any surveillance or location tracking it'd be a pretty big red flag if it asked.

The argument that people won't install it because they don't trust the government doesn't really make sense, when the implication is that they do trust the makers of all the apps they currently have on their phone. myGov? Service NSW? ATO? Medicare? And that's the apps backed by the government, then there's the millions of crazy little apps that people install. Over 80 million people happily put that FaceApp on their phone to play with the filters, then discovered that the Russian company who owned it were storing the photos on their server and the terms and conditions signed away the users ownership rights to the photos, yet people are hesitant to use an app that could literally save lives.

This post makes so much sense.

I too would have absolutely no issue downloading this app. I don't understand why people get so caught up on the privacy issue. It's just dumb.

If anyone feels uncomfortable with it after they have downloaded it, they can just delete it at any time.

If privacy is the major concern, don't have fb, Instagram, Snapchat etc... Don't even post on WSF from your phone.

Back in the day, I never understood why there was so much opposition to Bob Hawkes "Australia Card" proposal. It was before technology. What do people have to hide?

[sonar]

1 hour ago, Wanderboy said:

This post makes so much sense.

I too would have absolutely no issue downloading this app. I don't understand why people get so caught up on the privacy issue. It's just dumb.

If anyone feels uncomfortable with it after they have downloaded it, they can just delete it at any time.

If privacy is the major concern, don't have fb, Instagram, Snapchat etc... Don't even post on WSF from your phone.

Back in the day, I never understood why there was so much opposition to Bob Hawkes "Australia Card" proposal. It was before technology. What do people have to hide?

A lot of the angst for not signing is about who recieves the info and what they do with it.....ala Facebook and Cambridge Analytica etc.

[Prydzopolis]

33 minutes ago, sonar said:

A lot of the angst for not signing is about who recieves the info

The information they’ve released thus far on who receives the info:

- Info is stored on your phone with other phones in which you’ve been in 1.5m & 15 minutes of contact for 21 days, all of which is encrypted on your phone.

- If you test positive, you’ll receive a code from your GP confirming your diagnosis. The list of people’s encrypted data will be sent to the teams in the states/territories (for us it will be NSW health contract tracing teams). You actually need to give permission in order to send this information to them.

- They then decrypt that data which will provide them with a people’s info (Phone number, name & post code) so they can be contacted. I assume this data will be kept on secure server with relevant security but information hasn’t been released in this regard.

 - The PM said today that no other commonwealth or state government body has access to the data. Only the contract tracing teams.

[CaptainJess]

On 20/04/2020 at 4:26 PM, wendybr said:

Yeah ……. nah.

Not sure how to take this response Wendy? 

Why is a diary a bad idea? I have been doing it in a basic form for a couple of weeks. I note where I go in the calendar on my phone. 

If I have a personal log that says I went Aldi on Monday, my doctors on Wednesday and Petbarn on Thursday, how is that any different to what this app is doing? If I can pinpoint my movements, it will make it super easy for someone to contact trace if I do come down with something (knock on wood). 

Our contact tracing is some of the best in the world already with the app and they have announced they are investing in more capability for it. If everyone kept a basic log, I think it would be almost as effective and less intrusive. 

On 20/04/2020 at 5:08 PM, marron said:

I don't have mygov, service nsw, ato, medicare. All apps I download I turn off basically access to everything that I can; if that means the app won't work, i ditch it. I never put my real name on anything. Not even my tinfoil hat.

I don’t have those apps either. If I need to use one of those services, I will access it via the web using a VPN. 

I’m also very specific in what permissions I give apps too. 

I don’t care if I seem a little paranoid, but I think we give away too much data unnecessarily. 

[sonar]

47 minutes ago, Prydzopolis said:

The information they’ve released thus far on who receives the info:

- Info is stored on your phone with other phones in which you’ve been in 1.5m & 15 minutes of contact for 21 days, all of which is encrypted on your phone.

- If you test positive, you’ll receive a code from your GP confirming your diagnosis. The list of people’s encrypted data will be sent to the teams in the states/territories (for us it will be NSW health contract tracing teams). You actually need to give permission in order to send this information to them.

- They then decrypt that data which will provide them with a people’s info (Phone number, name & post code) so they can be contacted. I assume this data will be kept on secure server with relevant security but information hasn’t been released in this regard.

 - The PM said today that no other commonwealth or state government body has access to the data. Only the contract tracing teams.

I don't disagree with what you say Prydz and while this won't affect me a lot of people have concerns ( legitimate or not ) about identity theft......especially digital information stored on phones. There have been too many instances of peoples data being hacked no matter who holds the data. Hence peoples retuctance to hand over info.

Edited April 21, 2020 by sonar

[Neverbloom]

i do wonder what the world will look like after this ends, i mean the world isnt going to recover for a long time but there are pluses too(the environment is recovering somewhat right now)

[marron]

9 hours ago, sonar said:

I don't disagree with what you say Prydz and while this won't affect me a lot of people have concerns ( legitimate or not ) about identity theft......especially digital information stored on phones. There have been too many instances of peoples data being hacked no matter who holds the data. Hence peoples retuctance to hand over info.

Including government data.

We also have an extremely shady government department who are consistently pushing for more oversight over citizens but have shown themselves to be incompetent, secretive and vindictive.

[marron]

 

 

[Davo]

10 hours ago, CaptainJess said:

Not sure how to take this response Wendy? 

Why is a diary a bad idea? I have been doing it in a basic form for a couple of weeks. I note where I go in the calendar on my phone. 

If I have a personal log that says I went Aldi on Monday, my doctors on Wednesday and Petbarn on Thursday, how is that any different to what this app is doing? If I can pinpoint my movements, it will make it super easy for someone to contact trace if I do come down with something (knock on wood). 

Our contact tracing is some of the best in the world already with the app and they have announced they are investing in more capability for it. If everyone kept a basic log, I think it would be almost as effective and less intrusive.

The diary is better than nothing but the problem is it only does half the job. It only helps if you're the one who tests positive, it can't help someone you've been in contact with trace back to you.

In your week described above imagine this hypothetical. The guy working at Petbarn had the virus but didn't know yet. You go in, look around for a while and can't find what you're looking for. You go talk to the guy working there who tells you they're out of stock so you leave. Next day he tests positive. You've talked to him and touched things in his store while he was infectious so you're at risk. He has the app because he's in a job that has a lot of contact with the public and has a high risk of exposure. You don't have the app so you're not on his list of people he's been in contact with. Your diary says you went to Petbarn but that doesn't help him find you and because you didn't buy anything they have no way of working out who you are.

If you had the app you'd find out the next day when he does and know to isolate. Without the app you won't know you have it until you get sick, which may be after you've gone to Aldi and the doctors and been in contact with people who are regularly in contact with the public and the medically vulnerable.

I agree with your point above that the argument "if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide" doesn't hold up. Anyone who's been unfairly on the receiving end of some police or security treatment at a WSW game would back that up. I just don't see what information people would be against giving out here. Isn't it the same information they're voluntarily giving out through the current contact tracing? Just faster and more accurate. The vast majority of people won't get sick so the encrypted data will never leave their phone. For the few that do they can voluntarily choose to supply the phone numbers of people they've been near. Or they could just get a message saying they've been near someone who's tested positive and could potentially be carrying a deadly virus, getting them to isolate days earlier than they otherwise would have.

It's a shame because with all of the incorrect information going around in the media about this, particularly from some new outlets who should know better, I can't see the public taking it up in enough numbers to make it useful.

[Prydzopolis]

14 hours ago, CaptainJess said:

I don’t care if I seem a little paranoid, but I think we give away too much data unnecessarily.

I think you’d be aware more than most on how many companies monetize basic things like spending in shops (Coles sells data it’s through flybys, even if you don’t use a flybys card they can sell it based on your credit/debit card details), it’s scary how much data we accumulate without even realizing

13 hours ago, sonar said:

I don't disagree with what you say Prydz

You weren’t sure where the data was being stored, I just wanted to clarify as it’s still in development & new information comes out every day in regards to the app.

[sonar]

1 hour ago, Prydzopolis said:

You weren’t sure where the data was being stored, I just wanted to clarify as it’s still in development & new information comes out every day in regards to the app.

I'm saying that regardless of whoever has/holds the data that the phones collect there will be people who will try to get it. I'm not trying to be all tin foil hat here or suggesting the govt has nefarious reasons for the app ( though with the current govt I wouldn't be surprised ) I'm just putting out there peoples concerns.

Would you buy a Huawei phone and be confident that all your data is secure.? Why have govts around the world been reticent about them having/buying into their telecommunications networks.....even they are suspicious of what can happen to data mobile phones can store/generate so you can see why the general population is as well. 

It's an interesting discussion isn't it.? Who to trust.?

[sonar]

[Davo]

How can you turn up to a protest demanding the end to a virus related lockdown while wearing a mask?

Either it's safe enough to open everything up and you don't need the mask, or it's dangerous enough to need a mask so maybe the lockdown isn't such a bad idea.

[Prydzopolis]

3 hours ago, sonar said:

Would you buy a Huawei phone and be confident that all your data is secure.? Why have govts around the world been reticent about them having/buying into their telecommunications networks.....even they are suspicious of what can happen to data mobile phones can store/generate so you can see why the general population is as well. 

It's an interesting discussion isn't it.? Who to trust.?

To be honest, if the Australian government had the record of China when it comes to monitoring its citizens & relationship to a mobile phone manufacturer, then yes, I’d be highly concerned. However we are talking about the Australian government & not China or Huawei so the comparison is comparing apples to oranges.

If I was a Chinese citizen & living in China I would be terrified. Knowing all my communications were monitored, we wouldn’t be able to have the discussions we have on here. Scary stuff. I guess we are lucky that there are plenty of protections that stop that sort of government big brother security & surveillance in Australia.

It is a very interesting discussion, ideally we will have more information around security, privacy & as much transparency as possible in regards to answering all the right questions before the app is released in the next week or so. I’d say there aren’t too many big announcements more to come in regards to the app, just the finer details now.

[sonar]

42 minutes ago, Prydzopolis said:

To be honest, if the Australian government had the record of China when it comes to monitoring its citizens & relationship to a mobile phone manufacturer, then yes, I’d be highly concerned. However we are talking about the Australian government & not China or Huawei so the comparison is comparing apples to oranges.

If I was a Chinese citizen & living in China I would be terrified. Knowing all my communications were monitored, we wouldn’t be able to have the discussions we have on here. Scary stuff. I guess we are lucky that there are plenty of protections that stop that sort of government big brother security & surveillance in Australia.

It is a very interesting discussion, ideally we will have more information around security, privacy & as much transparency as possible in regards to answering all the right questions before the app is released in the next week or so. I’d say there aren’t too many big announcements more to come in regards to the app, just the finer details now.

As I said personally  i have no problems with the app as I won't be using it but  would feel a lot better if they released the source code under the GNU General Public Licence and allow for worldwide scutiny or use.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License

I was talking about hacking data in general and the safety of data, and concerns around that. thats why I used Huawei as an example. .

How many news items have we seen about a) people trying to scan credit cards as they walk past or b) or access a persons personal data to scam them financially. 

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by sonar

[marron]

2 hours ago, Davo said:

How can you turn up to a protest demanding the end to a virus related lockdown while wearing a mask?

Either it's safe enough to open everything up and you don't need the mask, or it's dangerous enough to need a mask so maybe the lockdown isn't such a bad idea.

in the above photo I'm undecided, but most of the ones I see people posting ("look at the dumb ****" wearing a mask) it seems pretty clear to me that they are doing so ironically. Like people dressing up as Trump at an anti-trump rally.