Squad Development 2019/20 Part 2

[wanderersfanatic]

8 minutes ago, mack said:

That we couldn't even sign one of Berisha, Mileusnic, Spiranovic, Davidson, Brattan, Troisi or Fornaroli when they were coming off contract says a lot to me.

It could only be one of two reasons right? 

We low balled the players or they have no interest of coming here. 

[StringerBellend]

apart from duke and Baccus I wouldn’t be in the slightest bothered if any of them leave 

[THEWANDERERSPOST]

54 minutes ago, StringerBellend said:

apart from duke and Baccus I wouldn’t be in the slightest bothered if any of them leave 

I have been informed they have said to Baccus and clubs they won’t let him go unless they receive 1 mil or higher. There is no clause in his contract which allows it to happen. 

Don’t know how true this is but Duke supposedly wants out and is looking overseas. Think he has also mentioned his ambition to go back overseas. Not sure if that is related. His contract also finishes this season I think.

[Upthehill]

12 minutes ago, THEWANDERERSPOST said:

I have been informed they have said to Baccus and clubs they won’t let him go unless they receive 1 mil or higher. There is no clause in his contract which allows it to happen. 

Don’t know how true this is but Duke supposedly wants out and is looking overseas. Think he has also mentioned his ambition to go back overseas. Not sure if that is related. His contract also finishes this season I think.

Can’t blame duke. He’s our best option at 9 right now and isn’t being used there.

[StringerBellend]

3 hours ago, Upthehill said:

Can’t blame duke. He’s our best option at 9 right now and isn’t being used there.

Can’t blame him at his age for wanting another crack overseas and nobody can fault his effort for us 

[Hughesy]

7 hours ago, mack said:

That we couldn't even sign one of Berisha, Mileusnic, Spiranovic, Davidson, Brattan, Troisi or Fornaroli when they were coming off contract says a lot to me.

The majority on here were against signing Berisha when he became available so I don’t agree that he’s a great example. Brattan and Fornarolli I agree with you. Spira is a law unto himself it seems, Troisi is just a gold miner and Davidson was always going back OS. Mileusnic.. meh

[Hughesy]

6 hours ago, THEWANDERERSPOST said:

I have been informed they have said to Baccus and clubs they won’t let him go unless they receive 1 mil or higher. There is no clause in his contract which allows it to happen. 

Don’t know how true this is but Duke supposedly wants out and is looking overseas. Think he has also mentioned his ambition to go back overseas. Not sure if that is related. His contract also finishes this season I think.

I can’t fault Dukes effort and dedication as captain, he’s been one of our best and I would love to keep him. Annoyingly though, he’s been one of the biggest offenders for crossing the ball repetitively into the box regardless of whether there is a player there to meet it or not. I love him but I think he’ll need a big improvement to cut it OS anytime soon.

[Frankos187]

Duke needs to play as a 9. Our deadliest player in the box, he needs to be there not whipping balls in. Muller would excel on the wing with Grozos or Sullivan at 10.
 

I can’t believe how badly Yeboah has regressed this year...

[wendybr]

 

15 hours ago, mack said:

That we couldn't even sign one of Berisha, Mileusnic, Spiranovic, Davidson, Brattan, Troisi or Fornaroli when they were coming off contract says a lot to me.

This

15 hours ago, wanderersfanatic said:

It could only be one of two reasons right? 

We low balled the players or they have no interest of coming here. 

This...and either way, it's disturbing, and sad.

[Unlimited]

9 hours ago, hughsey said:

I can’t fault Dukes effort and dedication as captain, he’s been one of our best and I would love to keep him. Annoyingly though, he’s been one of the biggest offenders for crossing the ball repetitively into the box regardless of whether there is a player there to meet it or not. I love him but I think he’ll need a big improvement to cut it OS anytime soon.

I think he should be crossing - otherwise what’s the alternative? Pass back to halfway and probably lose the ball 30m out from goal?

[ZachMercer]

2 hours ago, wendybr said:

 

This

This...and either way, it's disturbing, and sad.

3rd is probably job security. Many players in the league are on the downward/upward slope of their career (not peak), hence a club that has a reputation for turning over rosters year on year doesn't provide confidence.

Personally, I think we've let some quality players go over the years for no other reason than we've come to believe clean outs are a strategy - a proverbial baby with the bathwater situation.

I'd be curious to know everyone's thoughts on whom we should have retained but booted because either they hadn't adjusted to the league yet or where going through a slump?

[lloydy136]

i think under popa the squad clean outs were definitely a strategy. I think it was because his style was so intense and in your face that he burned some players out and they tuned him out after a certain period of time - some could handle it longer term (NTS, bridgey), some could handle it for a while and some couldn't handle it at all (mooy) but I think he felt like he needed regular turnover to avoid that squad burnout.

since he left the player turnover has been largely due to mismanagement - combo of bad recruitment meaning we couldn't wait to get rid of players (borda, pinatares etc), coaching turnover (I want my own players in) and you would have to say a negative culture around the club (very few good players saying - 'I want to stay long term')

the last few season have been really frustrating because we have found some good players - riera, nico and now muller - but we have wasted them in a sea of poor management, poor players and poor coaching.

I find it pretty funny that one of the very few players we have given a long term contract to is vedran who proceeded to **** up on a weekly basis, swear at fans and just generally make us a laughing stock of the competition.

[StringerBellend]

34 minutes ago, lloydy136 said:

i think under popa the squad clean outs were definitely a strategy. I think it was because his style was so intense and in your face that he burned some players out and they tuned him out after a certain period of time - some could handle it longer term (NTS, bridgey), some could handle it for a while and some couldn't handle it at all (mooy) but I think he felt like he needed regular turnover to avoid that squad burnout.

since he left the player turnover has been largely due to mismanagement - combo of bad recruitment meaning we couldn't wait to get rid of players (borda, pinatares etc), coaching turnover (I want my own players in) and you would have to say a negative culture around the club (very few good players saying - 'I want to stay long term')

the last few season have been really frustrating because we have found some good players - riera, nico and now muller - but we have wasted them in a sea of poor management, poor players and poor coaching.

I find it pretty funny that one of the very few players we have given a long term contract to is vedran who proceeded to **** up on a weekly basis, swear at fans and just generally make us a laughing stock of the competition.

the post season 4 clear out (the one that pisses me off) was a combination of the club penny pinching and refusing to offer the foreign players what they were worth (Andreu, Alberto, maybe Castelan) and last minute letting Australian players pursue opportunities overseas (Bridge, NTS, Jamieson) 

we then Brought in absolute dross

Borda, Pinatares, Bulut, the Japanese Sotiro etc. 

We then got smacked in front of 63k a it’s all been **** since then. It’s always quicker to take things apart than to build them. The club took the culture and winning mentality apart in S5, tried and failed to put it back together in 6 (Reira and Cejudo on $$) then adopted the wait until parra it will all be cool plan 

We now on to the 4th season in a row of lower table, that’s half of our existence, we are now a lower table team, in the meantime shelveyvile have built a winning culture.

This isn’t just on Babel this is 4 years of neglect of the 1st team squad 

and while I’m on a good rant and I am, I don’t buy the oh but we went to spotless and it was horrible, if we had won, people would have got on with it.

We now have the best stadium in the league, safe standing for actives etc. and we will be lucky to get 10k to next game, we will fill half a bat at ccm and our away support at kogarah won’t take its allocation  

not directed at you lloydy I’m just on a good rant 
 

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by StringerBellend

[StringerBellend]

48 minutes ago, ZachMercer said:

3rd is probably job security. Many players in the league are on the downward/upward slope of their career (not peak), hence a club that has a reputation for turning over rosters year on year doesn't provide confidence.

Personally, I think we've let some quality players go over the years for no other reason than we've come to believe clean outs are a strategy - a proverbial baby with the bathwater situation.

I'd be curious to know everyone's thoughts on whom we should have retained but booted because either they hadn't adjusted to the league yet or where going through a slump?

4th reason people like to win stuff we are lower table club 

should have kept and this will be unpopular but ABJ, he may be a lazy tosser but have a look how he is playing for the other lot, he said a lot of stuff we don’t like but let’s face it he’s being proven right on it at the moment 

others

Nico, Vidosic, Polenz, Hersi, Castelan...

(although we didn’t boot but didn’t make much effort to keep either) 

 

[THEWANDERERSPOST]

Also been told Vedran has sealed the deal with Macarthur. 

[pseudonym]

20 minutes ago, THEWANDERERSPOST said:

Also been told Vedran has sealed the deal with Macarthur. 

 

[wswnick]

1 hour ago, THEWANDERERSPOST said:

Also been told Vedran has sealed the deal with Macarthur. 

Hopefully this means they're not going for Lopar

[Keithie]

Pretty sure nothing has changed Lopar and Schwiegler were top of the list

[hawks2767]

Hey leave Bulut out of it, you think he'd just sit there and accept the rubbish being dished up ?

 

[Keithie]

Western Sydney Wanderers hero Brendon Santalab has called for root-and-branch change at the club he once graced, insisting the Red and Black have never recovered from the exit 26 months ago of foundation coach Tony Popovic.

BY DAVE LEWIS

The journey from Wanderland to Blunderland under the disastrous reigns of Josep Gombau and now Markus Babbel has tarnished the brand, and left all-time leading scorer ‘Santa’ calling for a fresh vision to bring life back to the club after seven defeats in nine games.

“It’s clear they’ve never recovered from the departure of Tony Popovic and they’re suffering right now,” said the 2014 AFC Champions League winner.

“It just goes to show how good he is as a manager and the club never really prepared for life after ‘Popa’.

“They’re now in a situation where they need to look from the ownership down and maybe move the club on to somebody else who has a different vision and philosophy.

“There need to be massive changes to show the fans they are heading in the right direction again.

“Gombau was an absolute disaster and Babbel has been an absolute disaster - what do you do?

“Do you keep the coach and change the players again?

“Or do you get somebody else in with the same playing group? It’s risky either way, whether you keep Babbel or get rid of him.

“There’s no guarantee that with a new manager they will turn the corner again.

"There are massive decisions for the club to make.”

Santalab, 37, struck 35 goals in 97 games for Western Sydney across five seasons, often as a super sub, winning the affection of fans along the journey with his firebrand devotion to the cause.

He is dismayed by what he sees now from those wearing the shirt of the A-League’s “biggest club”.

“As a past player knowing the culture we had there, it’s upsetting to see them now,” he said.

“With the training facilities and the new stadium they have they should be the biggest club in the country.

“Something is badly wrong and mass changes are needed.

“The playing group hasn’t shown enough fight, enough character or enough resilience for a club of their stature.

“You play for the fans and the badge on your jersey and that’s just not happening at the moment.

“They’re trying but things aren’t gelling and don’t look like gelling,” added Santalab, who wound up his 20-year professional career once more under Popovic at Perth Glory last season.

He’s taken on a new challenge at Victorian NPL club Caroline Springs George Cross - once part of the fabric of the NSL as Sunshine George Cross - as both player and commercial manager.

But despite a career which included stints in Europe and China, it’s the Wanderers where his heart lies.

“When you have players doing interviews and see the way they’re talking it’s obvious it’s an unhappy camp there,” he continued.

“Babbel has had enough time (40 matches, for 22 defeats and just 10 wins) to instill the philosophy and vision he wanted and it’s clearly not working.

“Whether he’s given too much of the reins to the backroom staff, I don’t know.

“For the fans who are bleeding red and black, they’re hurting and deserve better. I feel sorry for them.

“Under Popovic everybody at the club was traveling in the same direction and had the same vision, from the office staff upwards.

“It was a special feeling and hasn’t been there since he left. You could feel passion every time you walked into the stadium.

"There was a real buzz and excitement before matches and I’m not sure people are feeling that way anymore.

“At the end of the day, what the fans want most are results - and that’s just not happening.

“New stadiums don’t bring results but hard work and togetherness do."

[wswtragic]

13 minutes ago, Keithie said:

Western Sydney Wanderers hero Brendon Santalab has called for root-and-branch change at the club he once graced, insisting the Red and Black have never recovered from the exit 26 months ago of foundation coach Tony Popovic.

BY DAVE LEWIS

The journey from Wanderland to Blunderland under the disastrous reigns of Josep Gombau and now Markus Babbel has tarnished the brand, and left all-time leading scorer ‘Santa’ calling for a fresh vision to bring life back to the club after seven defeats in nine games.

“It’s clear they’ve never recovered from the departure of Tony Popovic and they’re suffering right now,” said the 2014 AFC Champions League winner.

“It just goes to show how good he is as a manager and the club never really prepared for life after ‘Popa’.

“They’re now in a situation where they need to look from the ownership down and maybe move the club on to somebody else who has a different vision and philosophy.

“There need to be massive changes to show the fans they are heading in the right direction again.

“Gombau was an absolute disaster and Babbel has been an absolute disaster - what do you do?

“Do you keep the coach and change the players again?

“Or do you get somebody else in with the same playing group? It’s risky either way, whether you keep Babbel or get rid of him.

“There’s no guarantee that with a new manager they will turn the corner again.

"There are massive decisions for the club to make.”

Santalab, 37, struck 35 goals in 97 games for Western Sydney across five seasons, often as a super sub, winning the affection of fans along the journey with his firebrand devotion to the cause.

He is dismayed by what he sees now from those wearing the shirt of the A-League’s “biggest club”.

“As a past player knowing the culture we had there, it’s upsetting to see them now,” he said.

“With the training facilities and the new stadium they have they should be the biggest club in the country.

“Something is badly wrong and mass changes are needed.

“The playing group hasn’t shown enough fight, enough character or enough resilience for a club of their stature.

“You play for the fans and the badge on your jersey and that’s just not happening at the moment.

“They’re trying but things aren’t gelling and don’t look like gelling,” added Santalab, who wound up his 20-year professional career once more under Popovic at Perth Glory last season.

He’s taken on a new challenge at Victorian NPL club Caroline Springs George Cross - once part of the fabric of the NSL as Sunshine George Cross - as both player and commercial manager.

But despite a career which included stints in Europe and China, it’s the Wanderers where his heart lies.

“When you have players doing interviews and see the way they’re talking it’s obvious it’s an unhappy camp there,” he continued.

“Babbel has had enough time (40 matches, for 22 defeats and just 10 wins) to instill the philosophy and vision he wanted and it’s clearly not working.

“Whether he’s given too much of the reins to the backroom staff, I don’t know.

“For the fans who are bleeding red and black, they’re hurting and deserve better. I feel sorry for them.

“Under Popovic everybody at the club was traveling in the same direction and had the same vision, from the office staff upwards.

“It was a special feeling and hasn’t been there since he left. You could feel passion every time you walked into the stadium.

"There was a real buzz and excitement before matches and I’m not sure people are feeling that way anymore.

“At the end of the day, what the fans want most are results - and that’s just not happening.

“New stadiums don’t bring results but hard work and togetherness do."

If only Santa had his manager's ticket and a bit of coaching experience - he would bleed for the club.

[mack]

What we truly never recovered from was sacking Gombau after 6 months because of pissy players.

[pseudonym]

7 minutes ago, mack said:

What we truly never recovered from was sacking Gombau after 6 months because of pissy players.

 

[StringerBellend]

52 minutes ago, Keithie said:

Western Sydney Wanderers hero Brendon Santalab has called for root-and-branch change at the club he once graced, insisting the Red and Black have never recovered from the exit 26 months ago of foundation coach Tony Popovic.

BY DAVE LEWIS

The journey from Wanderland to Blunderland under the disastrous reigns of Josep Gombau and now Markus Babbel has tarnished the brand, and left all-time leading scorer ‘Santa’ calling for a fresh vision to bring life back to the club after seven defeats in nine games.

“It’s clear they’ve never recovered from the departure of Tony Popovic and they’re suffering right now,” said the 2014 AFC Champions League winner.

“It just goes to show how good he is as a manager and the club never really prepared for life after ‘Popa’.

“They’re now in a situation where they need to look from the ownership down and maybe move the club on to somebody else who has a different vision and philosophy.

“There need to be massive changes to show the fans they are heading in the right direction again.

“Gombau was an absolute disaster and Babbel has been an absolute disaster - what do you do?

“Do you keep the coach and change the players again?

“Or do you get somebody else in with the same playing group? It’s risky either way, whether you keep Babbel or get rid of him.

“There’s no guarantee that with a new manager they will turn the corner again.

"There are massive decisions for the club to make.”

Santalab, 37, struck 35 goals in 97 games for Western Sydney across five seasons, often as a super sub, winning the affection of fans along the journey with his firebrand devotion to the cause.

He is dismayed by what he sees now from those wearing the shirt of the A-League’s “biggest club”.

“As a past player knowing the culture we had there, it’s upsetting to see them now,” he said.

“With the training facilities and the new stadium they have they should be the biggest club in the country.

“Something is badly wrong and mass changes are needed.

“The playing group hasn’t shown enough fight, enough character or enough resilience for a club of their stature.

“You play for the fans and the badge on your jersey and that’s just not happening at the moment.

“They’re trying but things aren’t gelling and don’t look like gelling,” added Santalab, who wound up his 20-year professional career once more under Popovic at Perth Glory last season.

He’s taken on a new challenge at Victorian NPL club Caroline Springs George Cross - once part of the fabric of the NSL as Sunshine George Cross - as both player and commercial manager.

But despite a career which included stints in Europe and China, it’s the Wanderers where his heart lies.

“When you have players doing interviews and see the way they’re talking it’s obvious it’s an unhappy camp there,” he continued.

“Babbel has had enough time (40 matches, for 22 defeats and just 10 wins) to instill the philosophy and vision he wanted and it’s clearly not working.

“Whether he’s given too much of the reins to the backroom staff, I don’t know.

“For the fans who are bleeding red and black, they’re hurting and deserve better. I feel sorry for them.

“Under Popovic everybody at the club was traveling in the same direction and had the same vision, from the office staff upwards.

“It was a special feeling and hasn’t been there since he left. You could feel passion every time you walked into the stadium.

"There was a real buzz and excitement before matches and I’m not sure people are feeling that way anymore.

“At the end of the day, what the fans want most are results - and that’s just not happening.

“New stadiums don’t bring results but hard work and togetherness do."

I love him in a mostly hetro way

[StringerBellend]

28 minutes ago, mack said:

What we truly never recovered from was sacking Gombau after 6 months because of pissy players.

He was showing no sign of improvement at all, the results where terrible, he did nothing for the kids, and the football was dreadful.

 

[lloydy136]

1 hour ago, mack said:

What we truly never recovered from was sacking Gombau after 6 months because of pissy players.

the players were right. gumby was a total fraud. the football we played under his 'leadership' was the worst I have seen in the a-league this side of the New Zealand Knights. the derby loss under gumby was the lowest point of our club's existence.

Edited January 13, 2020 by lloydy136

[mack]

6 minutes ago, lloydy136 said:

the players were right. gumby was a total fraud. the football we played under his 'leadership' was the worst I have seen in the a-league this side of the New Zealand Knights. the derby loss under gumby was the lowest point of our existence.

And yet despite all that he still managed a better win rate than Babbel has with us after a year and a half. It was always going to be hard to show much improvement when you get sacked 6 months into the job after starting it 6 rounds into the season. Very few coaches can ever take over a side that's already into their season, especially one that isn't already a high quality team, and turn them into a title winning side. We wasted that year because we sacked Gombau, and now we've wasted 2 years on Babbel who said all the right things but can't deliver on the park.

You don't win the A-League with kids, you win it with senior Australian players and 4 or 5 high quality foreigners. Youth players should be almost irrelevant to a side that wants to win the title and only factor in seasons where you have to play ACL or if you have a major injury crisis.

And our kids have done what exactly? Haven't set the world on fire, Lo, Kuzi, Trajovski, Shabow & Grozos all flopped. Suman, Cordier, Tass, Russell and Wilmering were/have been solid but nothing special, we've had a half dozen highly touted attacking players that have flopped because they are technically poor or don't have any major strength in Roberts, Majok, Macdonald, Fofanah, Scott and perhaps Mo Adam.

The best kid we had come through is Baccus, and Gombau was the one who gave him a real opportunity playing him in 14 games that season. The two next best ex-Academy players in the A-League are Cam Devlin and Sam Silveria and neither of them are playing for us because our youth coaches decided they weren't good enough.

[StringerBellend]

53 minutes ago, mack said:

And yet despite all that he still managed a better win rate than Babbel has with us after a year and a half. It was always going to be hard to show much improvement when you get sacked 6 months into the job after starting it 6 rounds into the season. Very few coaches can ever take over a side that's already into their season, especially one that isn't already a high quality team, and turn them into a title winning side. We wasted that year because we sacked Gombau, and now we've wasted 2 years on Babbel who said all the right things but can't deliver on the park.

You don't win the A-League with kids, you win it with senior Australian players and 4 or 5 high quality foreigners. Youth players should be almost irrelevant to a side that wants to win the title and only factor in seasons where you have to play ACL or if you have a major injury crisis.

And our kids have done what exactly? Haven't set the world on fire, Lo, Kuzi, Trajovski, Shabow & Grozos all flopped. Suman, Cordier, Tass, Russell and Wilmering were/have been solid but nothing special, we've had a half dozen highly touted attacking players that have flopped because they are technically poor or don't have any major strength in Roberts, Majok, Macdonald, Fofanah, Scott and perhaps Mo Adam.

The best kid we had come through is Baccus, and Gombau was the one who gave him a real opportunity playing him in 14 games that season. The two next best ex-Academy players in the A-League are Cam Devlin and Sam Silveria and neither of them are playing for us because our youth coaches decided they weren't good enough.

None of that means gombau was the answer it just means we got it wrong twice

[lloydy136]

59 minutes ago, mack said:

And yet despite all that he still managed a better win rate than Babbel has with us after a year and a half. It was always going to be hard to show much improvement when you get sacked 6 months into the job after starting it 6 rounds into the season. Very few coaches can ever take over a side that's already into their season, especially one that isn't already a high quality team, and turn them into a title winning side. We wasted that year because we sacked Gombau, and now we've wasted 2 years on Babbel who said all the right things but can't deliver on the park.

You don't win the A-League with kids, you win it with senior Australian players and 4 or 5 high quality foreigners. Youth players should be almost irrelevant to a side that wants to win the title and only factor in seasons where you have to play ACL or if you have a major injury crisis.

And our kids have done what exactly? Haven't set the world on fire, Lo, Kuzi, Trajovski, Shabow & Grozos all flopped. Suman, Cordier, Tass, Russell and Wilmering were/have been solid but nothing special, we've had a half dozen highly touted attacking players that have flopped because they are technically poor or don't have any major strength in Roberts, Majok, Macdonald, Fofanah, Scott and perhaps Mo Adam.

The best kid we had come through is Baccus, and Gombau was the one who gave him a real opportunity playing him in 14 games that season. The two next best ex-Academy players in the A-League are Cam Devlin and Sam Silveria and neither of them are playing for us because our youth coaches decided they weren't good enough.

anyone who looks at a team with Cornthwaite and Thwaite as centrebacks and then implements a high defensive line should not be getting paid to coach a professional football team.

[BoyFromTheWest]

2 hours ago, mack said:

What we truly never recovered from was sacking Gombau after 6 months because of pissy players.

It wasn't just pissy players, Mack.  Gombau was a disaster and lost just about everyone.  He was a very poor manager and disenfranchised everyone except the few young ones who he knew from Joeys. I know one former part of the club who absolutely hated his time with Gombau at the helm and subsequently left (he's doing very well with another club now).  He said everything with Gombau was toxic and he did nothing for the youth.  Where there's smoke there's probably fire - as people have quoted on hear often.  The critics of Gombau, the manager, are not limited to a few but pretty universal.  He didn't get sacked because he missed the finals (that may have been a part).  He got sacked because he lost everybody and turned everyone off.